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Laker_Town Retired Number
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 25604
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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We got a#4 when we had virtually no chance. House money |
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Laker_Jocker Star Player
Joined: 13 Jul 2004 Posts: 2865
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I think the only thing to be concerned about is how to get the necessary depth post trade (ala the other thread that is now missing). The order of signings will be key....
At June 30 when free agents signings can be agreed, my calculation is that Laker cap space = LBJ,BI,ZO,Kuz,Hart,Wagner,Bonga,Deng+4 cap holds and the #4 rookie contract @ 5.8M = 33.475M free cap (although I am not sure if #4 factors into possible cap because teams over cap can sign their rookies - if that does not factor then Lakers would have 39M). Assuming it can be figured out so that the 3rd star is signed prior for either 33M or 38M, the trade of ZO,BI,Hart,Picks is about 23.8M and AD is 27M. This altogether would mean Lakers are over cap when trying to fill out the roster.
So, maybe a cap person could chime in but I believe teams over the cap have 1 room exception of about 4.7M (and spotrac.com says Lakers have a trade exception for Zubac of 1.5M which I think could go into AD trade). Anything else is vet minimums and/or non-guaranteed contracts..
So, again, correct me if i'm wrong but the Lakers can "afford" the 3 stars AD-LBJ-Max Guy, 1 decent vet at 4.7M, then only value contracts - Kuz, Wagner, Bonga or other second rounders and whatever ring chasers will take minimum.
Given all that, and assuming the 3rd star is Kyrie or Kawhi, my take for targets to surround would be:
Guards - Rondo (because of the AD connection), Rose (played with LBJ in Cleveland), Jamal Crawford (dropped 51 points on 4/9/2019), Collison (Vogel connection), Make-em-Dance???, Caruso (deserves a minimum spot)
Forwards - none (already have LBJ,AD,Kuz,Wagner,Bonga)
Bigs - McGee (listening to his interviews I think he likes LA alot), Lopez (wanted to stay in LA - give him an annual pass to Galaxy's Edge), Chandler (If he has anything left he definitely will stay for minimum), Williams (deserves a minimum spot). I also think Boogie is now an option for minimum based on the KD and Klay injuries... |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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We definitely need to bring back Caruso. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Laker_Jocker wrote: |
Given all that, and assuming the 3rd star is Kyrie or Kawhi, my take for targets to surround would be:
Guards - Rondo (because of the AD connection), Rose (played with LBJ in Cleveland), Jamal Crawford (dropped 51 points on 4/9/2019), Collison (Vogel connection), Make-em-Dance???, Caruso (deserves a minimum spot)
Forwards - none (already have LBJ,AD,Kuz,Wagner,Bonga)
Bigs - McGee (listening to his interviews I think he likes LA alot), Lopez (wanted to stay in LA - give him an annual pass to Galaxy's Edge), Chandler (If he has anything left he definitely will stay for minimum), Williams (deserves a minimum spot). I also think Boogie is now an option for minimum based on the KD and Klay injuries... |
A lot of this will depend on the market for these guys. I don't see Cousins, McGee, Rondo, Rose and Lopez taking minimum deals if some team makes them a decent offer. |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8504 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Realistically, here's an educated guess on how the assets we traded will pan out:
1. Ingram (if he stays healthy) will become an All-Star, maybe not next year but eventually. Maybe not every year, but at least once. He's that good. There's maybe an outside chance he even becomes a superstar if he really wants it.
2. Lonzo Ball may improve his outside shooting somewhat, but he'll likely always be at least somewhat of an offensive liability. I've always felt like expecting him to start shooting 45% and 35+% from downtown is almost asking too much from him. Plus, he's injury prone, soft and passive. And his dad is a dipsh!tte. As much as I liked his defense, overall I'm really glad Lonzo, his dad and his fanboys are finally gone.
3. Hart is a nice role player. He hasn't proven he's a consistently good 3-point shooter, but if he stays healthy I think he will. He's the player I will miss most.
4. It's hard to predict what the #4 pick will yield for them. If they keep it, they say that Garland is somewhat of a project (I don't watch college basketball). They may be better off trading it for someone like Zach LaVine if they think he'll be worth his contract.
5. The other first round picks, more likely than not, will be low picks, which means that more likely than not they won't amount to much.
A great haul for NOLA. Maybe we paid a little too much compared to what other superstars have gotten their former teams, but we didn't get fleeced.
Now the big question is how will we fill out the rest of the team. But assuming this trade goes down as stated, the hardest part is over. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Last edited by slavavov on Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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Laker_Town wrote: | We got a#4 when we had virtually no chance. House money |
This like saying you won the lotto for 500k, so it's okay to pay 800k for a 400k
condo. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | Laker_Town wrote: | We got a#4 when we had virtually no chance. House money |
This like saying you won the lotto for 500k, so it's okay to pay 800k for a 400k
condo. |
Yeah, I don't get the logic of that. A #4 picks is a #4 pick -- it doesn't have less value because you got it through lucky ping pong balls. |
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OCWA Star Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006 Posts: 3660
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: Post Trade Logic and Reason Thread |
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RusselDoeee01 wrote: | I feel like some things need to be explained in one place for a lot of people on here saying why this why that etc...
1. Kuzma Is not a better or more sought after player than Ingram or Lonzo but was kept because of his minimal salary. His salary was the key part to his value.
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Agree that Kuz will not be better than Zo or BI, but he has a cleaner brand and thus more appealing to the casual fan. Couple that with a lower salary and it's easy to see why FO wanted to keep him. I won't be surprised if Kuz gets a lot of heat and ridicule next year because many casuals think he is better than he really is. |
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LongBeachPoly Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012 Posts: 16374
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Laker_Town wrote: | We got a#4 when we had virtually no chance. House money |
This like saying you won the lotto for 500k, so it's okay to pay 800k for a 400k
condo. |
Yeah, I don't get the logic of that. A #4 picks is a #4 pick -- it doesn't have less value because you got it through lucky ping pong balls. |
Wonder if the opinion would be the same if we had the no. 1 pick |
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az82187 Sixth Man
Joined: 06 Jul 2018 Posts: 69
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Posted: Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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After the Lakers extend AD and sign one max free agent or split up the max money for a couple of free agents on 2-3 year deals they will be over the cap for at least the remainder of Lebron’s contract. What does Kuzma being paid such a low salary have any benefit for the team at that point?
You can go over the cap to re-sign first round picks coming off of their rookie contracts. This means that Kuzma, Lonzo or BI could all get as much as is legally possible under the CBA regardless of whether the Lakers would be under the cap at the time that each was a free agent.
The few million that Lonzo or BI make over Kuzma now is insignificant, as they all play above their salaries on the court and most likely earn the team more money than they cost the team off the court.
So PLEASE stop restating the complete and utter fallacy that Kuzma’s salary is why th Lakers kept him. They could have included Kuzma, Wagner and Bonga instead of Lonzo and still got the deal done and kept the max slot open. Losing Wagner and Bonga is worth being able to keep Lonzo instead of Kuzma. The same could have been done if we decided to keep Ingram. In the case losing Wagner and Bonga is DEFINITELY worth being able to keep Ingram instead of Kuzma. |
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trablos Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017 Posts: 3020
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:13 am Post subject: |
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az82187 wrote: | After the Lakers extend AD and sign one max free agent or split up the max money for a couple of free agents on 2-3 year deals they will be over the cap for at least the remainder of Lebron’s contract. What does Kuzma being paid such a low salary have any benefit for the team at that point?
You can go over the cap to re-sign first round picks coming off of their rookie contracts. This means that Kuzma, Lonzo or BI could all get as much as is legally possible under the CBA regardless of whether the Lakers would be under the cap at the time that each was a free agent.
The few million that Lonzo or BI make over Kuzma now is insignificant, as they all play above their salaries on the court and most likely earn the team more money than they cost the team off the court.
So PLEASE stop restating the complete and utter fallacy that Kuzma’s salary is why th Lakers kept him. They could have included Kuzma, Wagner and Bonga instead of Lonzo and still got the deal done and kept the max slot open. Losing Wagner and Bonga is worth being able to keep Lonzo instead of Kuzma. The same could have been done if we decided to keep Ingram. In the case losing Wagner and Bonga is DEFINITELY worth being able to keep Ingram instead of Kuzma. |
Agreed, I would have preferred the Bulls rumor, but I suppose nobody was accepting unless Inram AND So we're included. Still worth it in the grand scheme of things. |
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maddprophet Star Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 1952 Location: Hotlanta
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:41 am Post subject: |
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I expect KCP back at a discount _________________ Spark the ism, my expertism, is lyracism, my flow will take you over like I was hypnotism...so where's the lighter, to start the cypher.... |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54713
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Commissioner Silver needs to force the Pelicans to return, at least, one of our future draft picks for "basketball reasons." |
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hydrohead Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2003 Posts: 4129 Location: Space City
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps i was naive to think Ball, ingram and the #4 was going to get it done.
Hart had some nice versatility and could also play off the ball well, so o saw him a kuzma as good fits. plus the scouting dept does such a good job at picking late round picks, it really reduces their value to the organization.
However, i don’t deny there were some solid deals on the table which forces pelinka to give NOLA the motherload. |
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KindCrippler2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 15821
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:58 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | gaogi wrote: | We basically traded a #2 (Ingram), a #2 (Ball), a #30 (Hart), a #4 and two future FRP for AD. A #7 (Randle) and a #2 (Russell) for cap space that got us LeBron and possibly another max. All of our lottery picks in the past 6 years are gone. We better hang that banner this year! |
If you gave me the choice of
Davis - Lebron - Walker or
Russell - Ball - Randle - Hart - Ingram plus three picks
I'll take the first trio in a second. |
Lebron is going to be 35 before the year ends. |
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Lakerchaq Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 May 2019 Posts: 300
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:58 am Post subject: |
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You give whatever it takes to get AD. Whatever! Specially if you have Lebron 28-8-8 James on your team. We gave away prospects that might never become valuable. I wish we kept the pick and traded kuzma but I’m fine with this because I didn’t want to risk another PG or Kawhi situation. It’s cool. Time to compete every single year for the next 6 years.
Lonzo: He sucks. He really does. Don’t let his inflated stats fool you, look at MCW. When he fixes his shot, he will just be a decent player. IF??? When was the last time someone went from shooting 44% FT to becoming a good shooter? Bad motor, timid, afraid of contact.
Ingram: TOS. I had it and let me tell you. He will not be the same. His shooting fluidity is gone! When they take out the piece of muscle that is obstructing your vain, your chest (parts of shoulder also) becomes numb. Not only that... but now that piece of muscle is missing so when you do any movements you def notice its not there. Doing push ups, lifting, shooting, everything. He was the guy with talent. He was headed towards 25-5-5 hopefully this injury didn’t affect it as bad.
Hart: trash. Not enough size, not enough quickness, limited offensively. Can be found with a 2nd rounder.
4th pick: garland will be special but we will grab him in 5 years
The picks will be trash since we will be winning, even after Lebron retires I see Klutch accomodating Davis with the right talent around him. We will be coming off a few rings and the culture will be popping
We won. We got a guy that produces more than all our young guys together. Everynight you have won your match up at his position. go look on youtube how he cooks GSW... no team can stop this man. |
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Number 7 Starting Rotation
Joined: 27 Nov 2015 Posts: 953 Location: Greece
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Post Trade Logic and Reason Thread |
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RusselDoeee01 wrote: | I feel like some things need to be explained in one place for a lot of people on here saying why this why that etc...
1. Kuzma Is not a better or more sought after player than Ingram or Lonzo but was kept because of his minimal salary. His salary was the key part to his value. Disagree, Kuzma’s playstyle is more attractive than a PG who can barely shoot and a Forward who mostly plays iso.
2. Lakers couldn’t afford both Ball and Ingram to get another max player. These two are about to get paid very much, very soon. If they were worth it, they’d be paid. If not, they wouldn’t be. Of both were good enough, there wouldn’t be a need for another max playet.
3. Anthony Davis is 26. Will be a Laker post Lebron and likely just entering his prime. I think it’s overlooked just how young he is. 8-10 years of prime Brow is incredible. Like Kobe said, you pull the trigger.
4. With this trade, Lakers have two easy avenues to a third star. Davis waive trade kicker, or lakers trade Bonga for cap relief.
5. 3 picks is a lot but the Lakers anticipate to be on top of the league, where the picks will fall very low in the draft. Look at the past year’s draft and tell me Davis isn’t worth trading like 5 of the top 10 players together for.
Please feel free to fill in with anything I missed. |
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Laker_Town Retired Number
Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Posts: 25604
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:59 am Post subject: |
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I'm so mad RightNow. We got AD. |
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DShotMaker1824 Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2012 Posts: 8773
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:10 am Post subject: |
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We got AD, which I really did not expect. Hence, due to the Warriors being irrelevant for the next year, it's Championship or bust. _________________
"Through the legs to the left, through the legs to the right, we don't run them Laker plays, we just Kobe fadeaway..."
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:38 am Post subject: |
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KindCrippler2000 wrote: | activeverb wrote: | gaogi wrote: | We basically traded a #2 (Ingram), a #2 (Ball), a #30 (Hart), a #4 and two future FRP for AD. A #7 (Randle) and a #2 (Russell) for cap space that got us LeBron and possibly another max. All of our lottery picks in the past 6 years are gone. We better hang that banner this year! |
If you gave me the choice of
Davis - Lebron - Walker or
Russell - Ball - Randle - Hart - Ingram plus three picks
I'll take the first trio in a second. |
Lebron is going to be 35 before the year ends. |
LeBron is still one of the better players in the league. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Post Trade Logic and Reason Thread |
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RusselDoeee01 wrote: |
1. Kuzma Is not a better or more sought after player than Ingram or Lonzo but was kept because of his minimal salary. His salary was the key part to his value. |
That could very well be correct. None of them were good enough to get my ego all tightly wrapped up into any opinions that I have toward them, but I still suspect BI will be a better player than Kuzma at their peaks. Being that I'm a non-player zealot for either of them, I hope Kuzma disproves that. He's gonna be important. We can't just throw out a big name trio and combine them with Dev George. That .303 from the arc has to improve, period. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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waterman40 Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6297 Location: Central Coast
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Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:02 am Post subject: |
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To me, it looks like we are trying the Miami plan; 3 stars, hope to get 2-3 decent role players, and the rest is d-leaguers and cast offs.
No one can guarantee a championship, despite whatever roster you build. GS seemed like a lock, then Durant goes down in the playoffs, then Klay, Looney misses time Iggy almost missed time. Bingo, Raptors win their first championship. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions! |
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Four Decade Bandwagon Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014 Posts: 8207
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Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: |
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waterman40 wrote: | To me, it looks like we are trying the Miami plan; 3 stars, hope to get 2-3 decent role players, and the rest is d-leaguers and cast offs.
No one can guarantee a championship, despite whatever roster you build. GS seemed like a lock, then Durant goes down in the playoffs, then Klay, Looney misses time Iggy almost missed time. Bingo, Raptors win their first championship. |
It is not the Miami plan though.
All three prime stars took paycuts to allow cap space for an additional piece in Miller. Also Heat were a playoff team returning seven players and a coaching staff and stability. And they still didn't win the ring in year one.
How exactly is this anything close to this current Laker plan? |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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lol at the idea that ball is better than kuz. |
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ExPatLkrFan Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2004 Posts: 3998 Location: Mukdahan, Thailand
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Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Ugh Logical and Reasonable. Thank God this is not the norm or this place would be shuttered inside a week. I like my threads Illogical and Unreasonable, same way I like my fireworks Unsafe and Insane. |
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