Or google BEAUTIFUL ARTWORK TOSSED LIKE FRISBEE FOR AMAZING RESULT _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68449 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 9:06 am Post subject:
FernieBee wrote:
American exceptionalism is a myth. The US is no better than most other countries, just richer and more deadly (nuclear weapons and such).
America's system is lousy but it's still the best in the world.
Drew Carey's beard. He killed the Bob Barker, clean-cut game show host look. Plus he's pear-shaped. LINK I know body-shaming is not cool. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52774 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 11:18 am Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
America's system is lousy but it's still the best in the world.
Nope. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Damn LC, you kicked my ass but I'm gonna stick with my original statement.
Reason, the system's not at fault, it's the people running it that make it not what it's built to be. Thesystem has checks and ballances. We the people aren't using them.
Keep in mind, I'm advocating for the SYSTEM Our CONSTITUTION. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Sat May 08, 2021 9:34 am; edited 4 times in total
If you told a person in the 1950s that in 2020 housing would cost over 50% of income, college would take a lifetime to repay, families could barely make do even with mom working, we were locked in endless wars, & govt was paralyzed by crisis?
Also have to bring up. When things were at their "best" for our country (decades ago) large swaths of the population were discriminated against and had opportunities taken away or restricted from them. Like pretty much anybody who wasn't straight, white, and male. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
If you told a person in the 1950s that in 2020 housing would cost over 50% of income, college would take a lifetime to repay, families could barely make do even with mom working, we were locked in endless wars, & govt was paralyzed by crisis?
Also have to bring up. When things were at their "best" for our country (decades ago) large swaths of the population were discriminated against and had opportunities taken away or restricted from them. Like pretty much anybody who wasn't straight, white, and male.
That wasn't/isn't because of the system, it was/is because of people. I inject my siggy.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Thu May 06, 2021 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52774 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Thu May 06, 2021 1:53 pm Post subject:
FernieBee wrote:
Maybe the system is not good enough to overcome the evilness and greed of some of the people running it.
FIFY _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
That wasn't/isn't because of the system, it was/is because of people.
I don't know that you're making a distinction that has any real meaning.
It's like the discussion we were having about whether all republicans are racists. Is it technically possible to not be racist and still vote republican? I guess, but it still means you condone and help to enable their racist policies. In the end, the distinction just has no meaning.
Back to your point, I'm not sure the distinction between the system and the people has any meaning. Some would argue that the people ARE the system, so there's no literal difference.
I would take a different approach -- I'd say that the same system is also set up in a way that it can be so easily subverted. Literally two people (president and senate majority leader) can hijack the entire government. The majority of the senate is elected by a small fraction of the people in the country. States can pass blatantly racist voting laws that effectively revoke the fundamental right of many people to vote. Textualism is used to hold sacred language written over 200 years ago that did not and could not have anticipated today's challenges, and as a result thousands of innocent people die as a result of gun violence. Antiquated rules (not even laws) stand in the way of progress on health care, infrastructure, tax reform, and essentially getting anything done. All of these things are permitted by the system. They're part & parcel of the system.
And like racism, you can't point to the parts you like about something and ignore its dark side. The system is all of the above.
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8504 Location: Santa Monica
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:06 am Post subject:
In a way, our system is, in general, the best in the world because it's based on democratic self-governance.
The problem is that it enables greed and fascism. I guess with that type of system you get leaders who are only as good as the people who elect them.
I'd say it's other factors (greed, capitalism, racism, fascism, etc.) why we're not the greatest country in the world anymore. But we do have the infrastructure to be the best again.
We just need the leadership to get there. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90348 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 7:07 am Post subject:
slavavov wrote:
In a way, our system is, in general, the best in the world because it's based on democratic self-governance.
The problem is that it enables greed and fascism. I guess with that type of system you get leaders who are only as good as the people who elect them.
I'd say it's other factors (greed, capitalism, racism, fascism, etc.) why we're not the greatest country in the world anymore. But we do have the infrastructure to be the best again.
We just need the leadership to get there.
Lots of countries have systems based on democratic self governance. Our hubris and our greed and our delusions have always made us equate powerful with great. We weren’t great to the natives we stole this lane from, or the slaves who built out country, or the immigrants and child labor and underpaid wage slaves of robber barons who replaced the original slaves. We haven’t been all that great to women, or people of color, or the people who arrived under the shadow of the lady in the harbor in New York. Sure, we developed industrial might like no one else, and we developed military might which we used to save the world from dictators, and then promptly repurposed to allow us to become a world wrecking empire.
We could always take things, build things, and blow things up. But borrowing the idea of democracy from people who came before us and watching others do it better for quite some time is a small leg to hang great on. Great in the sense of goodness you gotta get up and strive for every day. And we haven’t been striving for that much. We are like the abusive husband who wants to be loved but doesn’t want to be lovable _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 68449 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 7:28 am Post subject:
LarryCoon wrote:
Quote:
I don't know that you're making a distinction that has any real meaning.
I qualified that with
Quote:
the system's not at fault, it's the people running it that make it not what it's built to be. The system has checks and balances. We the people aren't using them.
It's a system with built in fixes, the people have a tool to implement what the system advocates, the vote.
Quote:
kikanga wrote:
A large portion of our country votes against their own self-interests.
As long as that continues, American won't be the "best" or "greatest" country in the world.
Again, it's not the system, it's the people running it and the inaction of people able to fix it.
We have a good system, as systems go, which I'm advocating for, people are the reason it's not working as it should.
Even in that state I still think, as I said in the intro, we have a lousy system but it's still the best in the world.
The system is the CONSTITUTION. The people are WE and those we elect. We're able to tweak the system. We have to do a better job at who we elect. Keep the system, work on WE and those we elect. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Sat May 08, 2021 9:37 am; edited 4 times in total
In a way, our system is, in general, the best in the world because it's based on democratic self-governance.
The problem is that it enables greed and fascism. I guess with that type of system you get leaders who are only as good as the people who elect them.
I'd say it's other factors (greed, capitalism, racism, fascism, etc.) why we're not the greatest country in the world anymore. But we do have the infrastructure to be the best again.
We just need the leadership to get there.
Buddy, have I got some stories to tell you about all of human history... _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90348 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 10:55 am Post subject:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
A lot of American small business owners deserve to go out of business.
I would much rather work for a corporate business than a mom and pop shop. Every expense is seen as stealing from their personal wallet, and they ask for a lot of “family” and sacrifice, and then if they make it, it was all them and they deserve all the spoils. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
A lot of American small business owners deserve to go out of business.
I would much rather work for a corporate business than a mom and pop shop. Every expense is seen as stealing from their personal wallet, and they ask for a lot of “family” and sacrifice, and then if they make it, it was all them and they deserve all the spoils.
Exactamente! _________________ Under New Management
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90348 Location: Formerly Known As 24
Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 11:18 am Post subject:
American capitalism is all about creating and/or exploiting inequities. And the biggest inequity is between the capital class and the labor class. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel
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