Yossi is just recommending that we do not allow Russ’s salary potential to go by the way side. We surrendered a FRP in the Russ trade and his current deal Allie’s us to bring back just about 60m in incoming salary. We surrendered a FRP to get Schro and lost the ability to add about 20m in incoming salary when he expired.
Our books could reflect nearly 80m in cap space at the moment, but we about 1 week shy where that ain’t no longer an option and it costed us 2 FRPs.
For all the hype that our 2 future ‘27/‘29 FRPs are getting and against the backdrop of us “surrendering our future” in such a move, realize that we 1 week away from actually doing that once Russ no longer becomes an option as a tradable asset. It would have cost us 2FRPs (our ‘20 and ‘21) with a 1st round exit followed by no entry into the postseason to show for it. Now that not only messes up your present but mucks up your future.
Speaking of which, from the Haynes article…
Quote:
The Orlando Magic have made center Mo Bamba available, league sources tell Bleacher Report.
Minutes for the 24-year-old dipped in the month of January (10.2) and there are teams who are intrigued with the untapped potential of a 7-footer who possesses a consistent outside shot.
Try buying low on this former 6th overall pick and now you got him and Rui to groom for the future.
Yossi is saying to extend him within the S&T limits so we can trade him in June/July?
I mean that sounds good but correct me if I'm wrong a team can only receive a sign and trade player if they are under the cap? That would limit some teams. Also I don't see some team willing to bring in WB for a large contract either.
Maybe Vasa or someone can explain how a WB S&T would actually realistically work?
Yossi is just recommending that we do not allow Russ’s salary potential to go by the way side. We surrendered a FRP in the Russ trade and his current deal Allie’s us to bring back just about 60m in incoming salary. We surrendered a FRP to get Schro and lost the ability to add about 20m in incoming salary when he expired.
Our books could reflect nearly 80m in cap space at the moment, but we about 1 week shy where that ain’t no longer an option and it costed us 2 FRPs.
For all the hype that our 2 future ‘27/‘29 FRPs are getting and against the backdrop of us “surrendering our future” in such a move, realize that we 1 week away from actually doing that once Russ no longer becomes an option as a tradable asset. It would have cost us 2FRPs (our ‘20 and ‘21) with a 1st round exit followed by no entry into the postseason to show for it. Now that not only messes up your present but mucks up your future.
Speaking of which, from the Haynes article…
Quote:
The Orlando Magic have made center Mo Bamba available, league sources tell Bleacher Report.
Minutes for the 24-year-old dipped in the month of January (10.2) and there are teams who are intrigued with the untapped potential of a 7-footer who possesses a consistent outside shot.
Try buying low on this former 6th overall pick and now you got him and Rui to groom for the future.
Yossi is saying to extend him within the S&T limits so we can trade him in June/July?
Yeah, that’s exactly what he’s saying. Get him extended on a lower annual and roll his expiring K into next year to do it all over again.
It’s essentially like a S&t this summer, but like an extension post trade deadline, it’s going to have to require Russ’s participation. As you can see 👇🏼 we only have Russ as an Excel client, so if we do right by him, maybe we can target another Excel client as a summer target via extend then trade or in a S&t (has to be 3yr minimum deal, with only 1st year fully guaranteed)…
But Yossi does not recommend this route, which is why we are now pressed against a click to have dude expire for nothing…and like I mentioned, that’s 2FRPs lost along with a potential 80m in incoming deals also gone with the expirations of Schro before and Russ soon to follow. That’s unacceptable imho.
Lastly consider, we are restricted in the amount of incoming salary we can bring in via our projected cap space this summer. For example, let’s say we want to bring in a 36m player, but only have 35m in cap space, we can’t make that move unless we also dump additional salary (ie MaxC and/or Damien via player opt-in) since we can only breach up to 100k over the projected 134m salary cap (could be up to 136m) in any cap room absorbing trade.
@Balto: I look at Rui as either our starting 3 with Bron running point and/or Bron’s main backup off the bench that can eat as a bucket heater with the 2nd unit. But think of a starting lineup of Bron, a 3&D 2, Rui, AD, stretch center rim protecting 5…yikes!
@G & KR: I’m with you guys in that it’s rare to find a defensive center with stretch potential, but ideally that’s what you gotta target to put next up AD. _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
Ainge rapes everyone in trades. I don't like Pelinka dealing with him, he will bend us over.
So you'd rather have THT than PatBev right now? That said, I agree that Utah is not a logical partner considering their available players don't really address our needs. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
We obviously have to resign Rui next year. The money will go quick because I think Reaves, Bryant, and DS (yes I said it) have to be resigned as well.
Agreed, no more big 3 and scraping vet min free agents. We need to build a real team for once. Retain the younger talent, preferably with value contracts.
At minimum when a future star tries to use Klutch to force his way here we would have actual moveable pieces.
Westbrook was definitely playing allergic yesterday actually it made me think rather he knows he might get moved, his post game comments have upset a lot of fans and it seems like he doesn’t like the LA media, maybe a decision has already been made?
I mean, there’s no way to actually prove it, but in my opinion, I don’t want any player on this team that would intentionally sabotage their own play not to get traded at the expense of the team
These games that we are losing and winning or ultra close we’re not getting blown out and we’re not blowing anybody out Westbrooks pour play is literally hanging the balance of the team and whether they get into the postseason this year we should have won yesterday’s game comfortably, Westbrook played like (bleep) and ham, for some explicable reason kept playing him
The cap is the issue though (repeater tax). After Bron, AD. You don't have a lot left there to give FVV + Trent + re-sign Rui/Reaves before the repeater tax is an issue. However on paper. just for this year and next, it's a hell of an improvement to our team adding FVV + Trent. The thing is as some will defintely speculate, defensively, unless we begin to scheme and make some changes, that team is an excellent offense unit but defensively we may get exposed in the playoffs.
This came up in Armin's poll thread. I'd favor that trade only if ownership is committed to paying the repeater tax for the next couple years. Resigning VanVleet and Trent would cost $55-60M per year. (Yes, I know that some people think they could be signed for less, but you need to plan for this sort of range.) If you add in Hachimura and Reaves for another $15-20M, we're looking at an enormous amount of luxury tax. If we're going to cut corners to avoid the tax (think Caruso), then this isn't such an appealing idea. You'd be looking at aging Lebron, oft-injured Davis, Trent, VanVleet, and 10 vet mins/rookies.
All of this is spot on but what I don't see a lot of people talking about is LeBron. At some point he will be off the books which includes his $50+ Million. Making this trade would show that the front office IS in fact willing to do whatever they can while Bron is still a Laker.
I mean even a team of AD/Rui/Gary/FVV is a very nice starting 4 for when Bron leaves. Also all 4 of those guys are young enough to have trade value themselves IF the Lakers want to blow it all up.
Just seems like a win now with potential for a future team without giving up tons of picks/young talent for old guys like Brog that wont have value after Bron is no longer a Laker.
Maybe, but only if ownership is willing to commit to the repeater tax. It would take a maniac like V+ to calculate the luxury tax bill under the scenario I gave ($70M to $80M in salary next year for VanVleet, Trent, Hachimura, and Reaves), but I can give you a rough estimate. Using the high end of the range, we would be looking at something in the ballpark of $180M in payroll. That's about $20M or so over the threshold. That would bring the total tax bill to around $85M. However, if we wanted to use the taxpayer MLE or anything else, we would be looking at a luxury tax mulitplier of at least 4.75:1.
The actual numbers would be lower than this if we re-sign VanVleet, Trent, Hachimura, and Reaves for less than $80M. In fact, if we somehow managed to sign all four of them for $60M-ish, we might not even have a large tax bill. That's just wishful thinking, though. I think that the market value is closer to $80M. More importantly, if the front office has a mentality of needing to hold the line on salaries next summer, we could wind up with another Caruso scenario. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved
Last edited by Aeneas Hunter on Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total
Could we possibly see a 3-way with the Blazers getting involved? They want Vanderbilt maybe we can get a asset from the Blazers? They are trying to to move GPII and Hart... the Jazz end up with Westbrook and perhaps Justice Winslow and we end up with Conley/Beasley and either Hart or GPII
Yossi is saying to extend him within the S&T limits so we can trade him in June/July?
I mean that sounds good but correct me if I'm wrong a team can only receive a sign and trade player if they are under the cap? That would limit some teams. Also I don't see some team willing to bring in WB for a large contract either.
Maybe Vasa or someone can explain how a WB S&T would actually realistically work?
A Russ S&t needs his cooperation first, so that’s a hoop we need to jump thru. Then it needs the team interested in receiving him to not only want him on that 3yr min deal (only 1st year mandated to be fully guaranteed), but once he hits their books they’re hardcapped…which adds a couple more hoops to jump thru.
But if it’s cap space we use to get him on a S&t deal we need to make sure we stay below the salary cap + 100k in team salary once the incoming deal hits our books. If we use his full bird rights to use as a capped out team, we can bring back 125% +100k of that amount in incoming salary.
But either way we approach it, simply having him expire while having Reaves, Rui, Gabriel’s capholds (or new deals) on our books means we’d have closer to 20m in cap space rather than the 30-35m we had before the Rui trade. _________________ Not familiar with the salary cap/CBA rules & how it impacts our Lakers?
#GetFamiliar by CLICKING HERE!
Could we possibly see a 3-way with the Blazers getting involved? They want Vanderbilt maybe we can get a asset from the Blazers? They are trying to to move GPII and Hart... the Jazz end up with Westbrook and perhaps Justice Winslow and we end up with Conley/Beasley and either Hart or GPII
word around here is that the blazers are big game hunting (OG). They have all their picks and could move Sharpe. _________________ "Friends can come and go, but banners hang forever" -KOBE
Could we possibly see a 3-way with the Blazers getting involved? They want Vanderbilt maybe we can get a asset from the Blazers? They are trying to to move GPII and Hart... the Jazz end up with Westbrook and perhaps Justice Winslow and we end up with Conley/Beasley and either Hart or GPII
Vandy fits into the Roco trade exception and I believe they're at 14 players at the moment so they don't have to get rid of a player. _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!!
If you want a preview as to how summer negotiations will go with FVV/GTJ you only need to look at the Tristan Thompson and JR Smith sagas with Cleveland. Ultimately, it seems RP blinked first. From what I can tell, Cavs offered 5/80 but Tristan wanted 5/94 and they "settled" on 5/82. Apparently JR initially turned down $42 million guaranteed but that's what he ended up settling on. It's not so much that the Cavs got bent over and moreso that both were distractions heading into training camp. I hope if they make the deal that a hand-shake agreement is made in advance. Otherwise, I don't know if Rob/Jeannie have the negotiating chops to play this game. It's times like this that I miss Jerry Buss; best example I can think of off the top of my head is how they navigated the Lamar Odom saga. Odom wanted 5 years guaranteed, Lakers were only willing to offer 3 and they ended up doing a 3 + TO deal even after Jerry had the balls to rescind his offer altogether.
Yossi is saying to extend him within the S&T limits so we can trade him in June/July?
I mean that sounds good but correct me if I'm wrong a team can only receive a sign and trade player if they are under the cap? That would limit some teams. Also I don't see some team willing to bring in WB for a large contract either.
Maybe Vasa or someone can explain how a WB S&T would actually realistically work?
A Russ S&t needs his cooperation first, so that’s a hoop we need to jump thru. Then it needs the team interested in receiving him to not only want him on that 3yr min deal (only 1st year mandated to be fully guaranteed), but once he hits their books they’re hardcapped…which adds a couple more hoops to jump thru.
But if it’s cap space we use to get him on a S&t deal we need to make sure we stay below the salary cap + 100k in team salary once the incoming deal hits our books. If we use his full bird rights to use as a capped out team, we can bring back 125% +100k of that amount in incoming salary.
But either way we approach it, simply having him expire while having Reaves, Rui, Gabriel’s capholds (or new deals) on our books means we’d have closer to 20m in cap space rather than the 30-35m we had before the Rui trade.
That's why you're the man. I forgot about the hard-capping snag in a S&T. Agree that would limit the trade market. It also prevents the possibility of a draft day deal without looking suspicious. I just worry though that without facing reality once he actually hits the open market, Russ will be less inclined to take a more fair deal for us that doesn't automatically become an albatross. _________________ Luxury Tax/FA Spreadsheet (Save to your Google Drive to edit)
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144480 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:20 am Post subject:
governator wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hollinger:
Quote:
(* Extended cap nerd sidebar: Although Turner’s new deal is theoretically not subject to a six-month trade restriction the way some extensions are, I’ve also talked to a well-connected source who thinks the league office would make a huge frowny face if the Pacers were to turn around and trade him so quickly after inking a renegotiate-and-extend deal unless it were to another team that would have been able to renegotiate and extend him. San Antonio is the only such team, and that isn’t happening. However, if the Pacers trade him in June, still inside six months, it would likely be a different story; it would be much harder for the league office to argue there were cap-circumventing shenanigans given the time between transactions.)
Quote:
Of course, the Lakers already gave us a partial answer to this existential question when they traded three second-round picks to Washington for Rui Hachimura. Most of my league sources, given anonymity so they could speak freely, pegged this as a 2023 free-agency move more than an in-season roster makeover, and if so, it could be a signal that L.A. intends to keep pushing in chips rather than accumulate 2023 cap space.
The latest hot idea making the rounds — and I will emphasize that this idea has been fairly heavily trafficked in theory despite little evidence that it’s been discussed in reality — is the notion of trading Westbrook and the future firsts to Toronto, unprotected, in return for Klutch client Gary Trent Jr. and likely future Klutch client Fred VanVleet. Both are likely free agents with player options on their deals, but presumably, the closeness of Klutch and the Lakers would make re-upping more palatable.
Quote:
Which takes us back to the nightly torment of the Lakers. Watching James take over games or Anthony Davis casually swat away Tyrese Haliburton’s go-ahead layup attempt, it’s easy to believe in the idea that one or two more good players on a mostly replacement-level roster could make this one of the West’s better teams overnight. On the other hand, the stark math of where they stand and how far that leaves them from the league’s upper crust argues for the opposite course.
This is why writers can make a living, easy read, filled a page but the meat is 1 sentence, Lakers more likely to go all in
Interesting, I think that the meat of the article is “the stark math of where they stand and how far that leaves them from the league’s upper crust”. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144480 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 9:20 am Post subject:
governator wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Hollinger:
Quote:
(* Extended cap nerd sidebar: Although Turner’s new deal is theoretically not subject to a six-month trade restriction the way some extensions are, I’ve also talked to a well-connected source who thinks the league office would make a huge frowny face if the Pacers were to turn around and trade him so quickly after inking a renegotiate-and-extend deal unless it were to another team that would have been able to renegotiate and extend him. San Antonio is the only such team, and that isn’t happening. However, if the Pacers trade him in June, still inside six months, it would likely be a different story; it would be much harder for the league office to argue there were cap-circumventing shenanigans given the time between transactions.)
Quote:
Of course, the Lakers already gave us a partial answer to this existential question when they traded three second-round picks to Washington for Rui Hachimura. Most of my league sources, given anonymity so they could speak freely, pegged this as a 2023 free-agency move more than an in-season roster makeover, and if so, it could be a signal that L.A. intends to keep pushing in chips rather than accumulate 2023 cap space.
The latest hot idea making the rounds — and I will emphasize that this idea has been fairly heavily trafficked in theory despite little evidence that it’s been discussed in reality — is the notion of trading Westbrook and the future firsts to Toronto, unprotected, in return for Klutch client Gary Trent Jr. and likely future Klutch client Fred VanVleet. Both are likely free agents with player options on their deals, but presumably, the closeness of Klutch and the Lakers would make re-upping more palatable.
Quote:
Which takes us back to the nightly torment of the Lakers. Watching James take over games or Anthony Davis casually swat away Tyrese Haliburton’s go-ahead layup attempt, it’s easy to believe in the idea that one or two more good players on a mostly replacement-level roster could make this one of the West’s better teams overnight. On the other hand, the stark math of where they stand and how far that leaves them from the league’s upper crust argues for the opposite course.
This is why writers can make a living, easy read, filled a page but the meat is 1 sentence, Lakers more likely to go all in
Interesting, I think that the meat of the article is “the stark math of where they stand and how far that leaves them from the league’s upper crust”. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Yossi is just recommending that we do not allow Russ’s salary potential to go by the way side. We surrendered a FRP in the Russ trade and his current deal Allie’s us to bring back just about 60m in incoming salary. We surrendered a FRP to get Schro and lost the ability to add about 20m in incoming salary when he expired.
Our books could reflect nearly 80m in cap space at the moment, but we about 1 week shy where that ain’t no longer an option and it costed us 2 FRPs.
For all the hype that our 2 future ‘27/‘29 FRPs are getting and against the backdrop of us “surrendering our future” in such a move, realize that we 1 week away from actually doing that once Russ no longer becomes an option as a tradable asset. It would have cost us 2FRPs (our ‘20 and ‘21) with a 1st round exit followed by no entry into the postseason to show for it. Now that not only messes up your present but mucks up your future.
Speaking of which, from the Haynes article…
Quote:
The Orlando Magic have made center Mo Bamba available, league sources tell Bleacher Report.
Minutes for the 24-year-old dipped in the month of January (10.2) and there are teams who are intrigued with the untapped potential of a 7-footer who possesses a consistent outside shot.
Try buying low on this former 6th overall pick and now you got him and Rui to groom for the future.
Yossi is saying to extend him within the S&T limits so we can trade him in June/July?
Yeah, that’s exactly what he’s saying. Get him extended on a lower annual and roll his expiring K into next year to do it all over again.
It’s essentially like a S&t this summer, but like an extension post trade deadline, it’s going to have to require Russ’s participation. As you can see 👇🏼 we only have Russ as an Excel client, so if we do right by him, maybe we can target another Excel client as a summer target via extend then trade or in a S&t (has to be 3yr minimum deal, with only 1st year fully guaranteed)…
But Yossi does not recommend this route, which is why we are now pressed against a click to have dude expire for nothing…and like I mentioned, that’s 2FRPs lost along with a potential 80m in incoming deals also gone with the expirations of Schro before and Russ soon to follow. That’s unacceptable imho.
Lastly consider, we are restricted in the amount of incoming salary we can bring in via our projected cap space this summer. For example, let’s say we want to bring in a 36m player, but only have 35m in cap space, we can’t make that move unless we also dump additional salary (ie MaxC and/or Damien via player opt-in) since we can only breach up to 100k over the projected 134m salary cap (could be up to 136m) in any cap room absorbing trade.
@Balto: I look at Rui as either our starting 3 with Bron running point and/or Bron’s main backup off the bench that can eat as a bucket heater with the 2nd unit. But think of a starting lineup of Bron, a 3&D 2, Rui, AD, stretch center rim protecting 5…yikes!
@G & KR: I’m with you guys in that it’s rare to find a defensive center with stretch potential, but ideally that’s what you gotta target to put next up AD.
Couple of things:
1) I've been wondering that when Bron breaks the record does he shift to a more playmaker type role? Of course still get his BUT focus more on getting AD and the other involved? I always thought Bron liked being point, kinda a Magic role, grabbing a big like Turner and maybe Hield as well would do just that! Guess we will find out what if anything changes when Bron breaks the record.
Turner
AD
Rui
Hield
Bron
Winner Winner!!!
Hield
2) Can Spurs still take on say WBs contract and only have to send out very little? Thinking they are the only team that can do this? Maybe 1 other?
IF the Raptors deal went down and we got Fred and Gary couldn't we then turn around and make it a 3 team trade sending other contracts to the Spurs for someone which gets us under the tax THUS allowing Jeanie to avoid the repeater tax?
Say Rob sends 1st+Reaves(or Christie)/PBev/Walker to the Raptors for Fred and Gary. Then also our other 1st plus say WB to the Spurs for Poeltl?
This should take us under the tax PLUS give us a lineup of:
Yossi is saying to extend him within the S&T limits so we can trade him in June/July?
I mean that sounds good but correct me if I'm wrong a team can only receive a sign and trade player if they are under the cap? That would limit some teams. Also I don't see some team willing to bring in WB for a large contract either.
Maybe Vasa or someone can explain how a WB S&T would actually realistically work?
A Russ S&t needs his cooperation first, so that’s a hoop we need to jump thru. Then it needs the team interested in receiving him to not only want him on that 3yr min deal (only 1st year mandated to be fully guaranteed), but once he hits their books they’re hardcapped…which adds a couple more hoops to jump thru.
But if it’s cap space we use to get him on a S&t deal we need to make sure we stay below the salary cap + 100k in team salary once the incoming deal hits our books. If we use his full bird rights to use as a capped out team, we can bring back 125% +100k of that amount in incoming salary.
But either way we approach it, simply having him expire while having Reaves, Rui, Gabriel’s capholds (or new deals) on our books means we’d have closer to 20m in cap space rather than the 30-35m we had before the Rui trade.
Russ has always been about getting as much money as possible. He even petitioned the NBA to increase his first max extension retroactively in OKC because he reached a certain milestone. I don’t see him taking a minimum extension.
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