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Dr. Laker Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002 Posts: 17109
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | LakerDynasty6.0 wrote: | my $0.01? I think Dirk is the same as Larry Bird.
Peace! |
Luka and Bird I would say is the similar archetype than Dirk. |
Luka isn't the shooter that Bird was, but (and this sounds idiotic) Luka would kick Bird's ass because of his ability to put the ball on the floor. Bird was taller and played a different position, but if you put Luka as the PG on the 85 Celtics and put Bird as the SF on the 23 Mavs, the Celtics would still be a championship caliber team.- I don't think the Mavs would be as good (of course, maybe Bird gets Kyrie to act right).
And this is from a guy who HATED the fact that Larry Bird was a cold blooded assassin. _________________ On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: Reeves vs. Caruso |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | At 24+, he's physically mature, but he can grow as a player. Of course, as a UDFA, the chances of him having an impactful career are slight.
Can he have the impact of a Bruce Bowen or a John Starks? Starks was barely in the league at 25, but at 26 he turned a corner and was a starter at 27.
Bowen was 3 months shy of his 26th birthday before making an NBA roster and didn't really "stick" until he was 28. |
Sure. There are always going to be outliers. There has been some heavy duty statistical research done on the subject. The likelihood of significant improvement diminishes with each passing year. By 24, a player is getting close to the average physical peak, so the chances of significant improvement are declining. But they certainly aren't zero. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25653
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Megaton wrote: | LakerDynasty6.0 wrote: | my $0.01? I think Dirk is the same as Larry Bird.
Peace! |
Luka and Bird I would say is the similar archetype than Dirk. |
Luka isn't the shooter that Bird was, but (and this sounds idiotic) Luka would kick Bird's ass because of his ability to put the ball on the floor. Bird was taller and played a different position, but if you put Luka as the PG on the 85 Celtics and put Bird as the SF on the 23 Mavs, the Celtics would still be a championship caliber team.- I don't think the Mavs would be as good (of course, maybe Bird gets Kyrie to act right).
And this is from a guy who HATED the fact that Larry Bird was a cold blooded assassin. |
Bird was a very intelligent passer. Dude was a point forward for the Celtics in his prime. I’m not sure that’s an area Luka would kick Bird’s ass in. He might not have averaged as many triple doubles as Luka does (well also, getting triple doubles these days mean almost nothing now), but make no mistake: dude knew how to torch the defense with his facilitating, as well as his scoring from all angles.
Luka is also proof that Bird, despite not being the super athletes that we see in today’s athletes nowadays, would arguably be an even better player in this era. Bird would love to shoot more 3s than he was allowed to back in his day.
The major difference is personality. Bird will trash talk to you to death and get in your head. And the very annoying aspect of that is…he usually backs it up. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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lakersfan32 Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 3748
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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BandwagonLBJhopper wrote: | I'm the worlds biggest Caruso stan and I think Reeves is better
Better ball handler, shooter, passer - bball IQ is really good for both and Caruso is better on D, but Reeves is no slouch there
I think what really makes the difference is Reeves size, allows him to play up against forwards |
huh? they're the same height. caruso is thicker |
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Killer_Z Star Player
Joined: 25 Apr 2011 Posts: 4999
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Very different players apart from both “coming out of no where”.
All recency bias aside, Reaves is the all around better player, and still has upside.
More importantly:
LG brothers and sisters, please repeat after me, it’s Austin Reaves …… not Reeves ……it’s Reaves with an “A”. The kid has been playing for us long enough, I have no idea why his name continues to be messed with on this forum. It’s not like his name is Austin Antetokounmpo. |
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unleasHell Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Apr 2001 Posts: 11591 Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Reeves any day... _________________ “Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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TDRock Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 49378 Location: LA to the Bay
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Killer_Z wrote: | Very different players apart from both “coming out of no where”.
All recency bias aside, Reaves is the all around better player, and still has upside.
More importantly:
LG brothers and sisters, please repeat after me, it’s Austin Reaves …… not Reeves ……it’s Reaves with an “A”. The kid has been playing for us long enough, I have no idea why his name continues to be messed with on this forum. It’s not like his name is Austin Antetokounmpo. |
Praise the LawedT YES please spell a man's name correctly at this point. Come on now lol
(Clearly Reaves is better overall but I'm still totally biased and will always love my CaruGOAT) |
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Polarbear Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2003 Posts: 6129
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Megaton wrote: | There is no VERSUS. They are completely different players.
I swear, some of you are legit racist. The only thing the same about them is that they are both white.
How about we compare Austin Reaves to a African American player please? One of the few things I like about Mark Cuban is his enforcement on his scouts to strictly make comparisons from one player, to another that is a different race. Because in cases like this, you get absolutely lazy comparisons that make no sense like Reaves and Caruso, where they play nothing alike. But because they are both white, they somehow get compared to each other.
Be BETTER people. Please. |
Wasn't my intent to be or seem racist. AC left after 20-21. Reeves came in 21-22. Even though we "chose" THT over AC, it was Reeves who took AC's role, so it's a ROLE-TO-ROLE comparison, not a racial one. |
Don’t sweat this too much. This is just Megatron being Megatron. He can’t help himself.
It is possible that you’re comparing the two because of the way that we got them as well two players that seemingly came out of nowhere to become impact players for us
They’re playing styles are a bit different, but they’re IQs are high and they both have good motors
Carusos athleticism is way above hillbilly Kobe’s, but the technique of reaves makes up for it
It’s great whenever we find these kinds of players and it’s a feather in the talent evaluation of the Lakers cap |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144476 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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nomoreshaq wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | We are likely very close to both Caruso and Reaves’ ceilings. They can both fine tune their games but in their mid 20’s we shouldn’t expect a lot of growth. |
Reaves is 24, Caruso is 29. Reaves is still "young" |
Reaves will be 25 in a little more than a month. He has developed nicely during his 5 years in college and hopefully will continue to add facets to his game. I especially hope that he improves his dribbling, that would make him even more valuable. But physically he pretty much is what he will be. He can add strength but that’s about it. Again, that limited growth is why 5-year college guys don’t go in the lottery, typically lottery teams aren’t good and want young players that they can develop. But someone like Reaves fits well on older, established teams, which is what the Lakers are. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144476 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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TDRock wrote: | Killer_Z wrote: | Very different players apart from both “coming out of no where”.
All recency bias aside, Reaves is the all around better player, and still has upside.
More importantly:
LG brothers and sisters, please repeat after me, it’s Austin Reaves …… not Reeves ……it’s Reaves with an “A”. The kid has been playing for us long enough, I have no idea why his name continues to be messed with on this forum. It’s not like his name is Austin Antetokounmpo. |
Praise the LawedT YES please spell a man's name correctly at this point. Come on now lol
(Clearly Reaves is better overall but I'm still totally biased and will always love my CaruGOAT) |
Eh, some here still like Julius Randall. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | nomoreshaq wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | We are likely very close to both Caruso and Reaves’ ceilings. They can both fine tune their games but in their mid 20’s we shouldn’t expect a lot of growth. |
Reaves is 24, Caruso is 29. Reaves is still "young" |
Reaves will be 25 in a little more than a month. He has developed nicely during his 5 years in college and hopefully will continue to add facets to his game. I especially hope that he improves his dribbling, that would make him even more valuable. But physically he pretty much is what he will be. He can add strength but that’s about it. Again, that limited growth is why 5-year college guys don’t go in the lottery, typically lottery teams aren’t good and want young players that they can develop. But someone like Reaves fits well on older, established teams, which is what the Lakers are. |
At the start of the season, the average age of an NBA player was 26.01. Reaves was 24. That sounds young by the standards of ordinary people, but it isn't young by NBA standards. There were four teams (Thunder, Rockets, Spurs, Magic) with an average age lower than Reaves, and another team (Memphis) with an average age almost the same as Reaves. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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While we're on the subject, I thought it would be interesting to look at the stats for Caruso and Reaves at age 24:
https://stathead.com/tiny/yvthR
Caruso was mostly playing in the G League that year, but he got a pretty good run with the Lakers. If you go down to per 36 or per 100, he was actually putting up better box score numbers than Reaves. The box score metrics (BPM, etc.) are a wash. Caruso beats Reaves by a decent margin when it comes to RAPTOR for the age 24 season (+5.3 vs. +3.0). Reaves has a slight advantage when it comes to DARKO. Caruso has a modest advantage when it comes to RAPM.
I'm not saying that these numbers prove anything. I'm just posting them because I looked them up out of curiosity. If anything, it's a reminder of why people were taking note of Caruso that season. When he was getting time at the big club, he was really producing. _________________ Internet Argument Resolved |
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Batguano Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 2268
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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1) So now Reeves is Manu Ginobiii (first ballot HOF)? I love Reaves as much as the next guy but let's please slow down with these hyperbolic comparisons. Ya'll were saying the similar things about Caruso. How he was one of the BEST defenders in the league and how he would be regularly making All-Defense teams. Dude is now 29 and none of that has come to fruition. Slow your roll. Let guys develop into what they can be without placing exaggerated expectations on them.
2) Rookie Larry Bird lead the the Celtics to a 32-win turnaround his rookie season and a championship his 2nd season. Put some respect on his name. Basketball is not a game of one-on-one so the fact that Luka can put the ball on the floor better than Bird has little effect on who's better. Especially considering Bird does literally everything else better than Luka. Not to mention, Bird's style of play maximizes his teammates while Luka still has the stigma of being a ball-dominant player. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Batguano wrote: | 1) So now Reeves is Manu Ginobiii (first ballot HOF)? I love Reaves as much as the next guy but let's please slow down with these hyperbolic comparisons. Ya'll were saying the similar things about Caruso. How he was one of the BEST defenders in the league and how he would be regularly making All-Defense teams. Dude is now 29 and none of that has come to fruition. Slow your roll. Let guys develop into what they
can be without placing exaggerated expectations on them. |
Caruso will probably make the all-defense team this year. He leads the league in Raptor defense by a big margin, and he registers well in a lot of other metrics. He'll probably get some DPoY votes too. |
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TDRock Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 49378 Location: LA to the Bay
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | TDRock wrote: | Killer_Z wrote: | Very different players apart from both “coming out of no where”.
All recency bias aside, Reaves is the all around better player, and still has upside.
More importantly:
LG brothers and sisters, please repeat after me, it’s Austin Reaves …… not Reeves ……it’s Reaves with an “A”. The kid has been playing for us long enough, I have no idea why his name continues to be messed with on this forum. It’s not like his name is Austin Antetokounmpo. |
Praise the LawedT YES please spell a man's name correctly at this point. Come on now lol
(Clearly Reaves is better overall but I'm still totally biased and will always love my CaruGOAT) |
Eh, some here still like Julius Randall. |
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Batguano Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 2268
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Batguano wrote: | 1) So now Reeves is Manu Ginobiii (first ballot HOF)? I love Reaves as much as the next guy but let's please slow down with these hyperbolic comparisons. Ya'll were saying the similar things about Caruso. How he was one of the BEST defenders in the league and how he would be regularly making All-Defense teams. Dude is now 29 and none of that has come to fruition. Slow your roll. Let guys develop into what they
can be without placing exaggerated expectations on them. |
Caruso will probably make the all-defense team this year. He leads the league in Raptor defense by a big margin, and he registers well in a lot of other metrics. He'll probably get some DPoY votes too. |
Bet. We'll revisit this post at the end of the season and if he makes it I'll be the first to eat crow. But that still doesn't mean that the Reaves = Manu comparisons aren't just a TAD bit hyperbolic. |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8386 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2023 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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While Caruso may be a master of defense, Reaves is a jack of all trades.
For the kind of team we have where we need 3-point shooting and offensive versatility, Reaves is the better fit.
Imo Reaves is the better player overall because he's so much better in terms of shooting, ball-handling and creating for teammates, and he's not that bad on defense either.
Caruso is honestly more hype than substance, although I do miss his defense and hustle. |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23791
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:26 am Post subject: |
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Caruso is the better defensive player.
Reaves is on another planet offensively. |
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CervantesRises Star Player
Joined: 18 Jun 2016 Posts: 3918
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Dr. Laker wrote: | Megaton wrote: | LakerDynasty6.0 wrote: | my $0.01? I think Dirk is the same as Larry Bird.
Peace! |
Luka and Bird I would say is the similar archetype than Dirk. |
Luka isn't the shooter that Bird was, but (and this sounds idiotic) Luka would kick Bird's ass because of his ability to put the ball on the floor. Bird was taller and played a different position, but if you put Luka as the PG on the 85 Celtics and put Bird as the SF on the 23 Mavs, the Celtics would still be a championship caliber team.- I don't think the Mavs would be as good (of course, maybe Bird gets Kyrie to act right).
And this is from a guy who HATED the fact that Larry Bird was a cold blooded assassin. |
The fact that Bird was a cold blooded assassin is why soft as charmin Luka would never have a chance. _________________ "If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe
#BannersOverBillboards |
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CRoost Star Player
Joined: 21 Mar 2017 Posts: 4801
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 10:27 am Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | While Caruso may be a master of defense, Reaves is a jack of all trades.
For the kind of team we have where we need 3-point shooting and offensive versatility, Reaves is the better fit.
Imo Reaves is the better player overall because he's so much better in terms of shooting, ball-handling and creating for teammates, and he's not that bad on defense either.
Caruso is honestly more hype than substance, although I do miss his defense and hustle. |
Caruso is one of the best point of attack defender right now. Who’s better is depends on what the team needs and their fit. In essence, they are both role players that can thrive on any system but most importantly can contribute to winning. |
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SGSD32 Starting Rotation
Joined: 19 Jul 2005 Posts: 532
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:32 am Post subject: |
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They're both 6'5" white guys who were undrafted and played college in the big 12 and are finding success in the NBA... and both seem to be true glue guys.. willing to do whatever a team needs.
Other than that? They're very, very different players. |
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ThePageDude Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2002 Posts: 2600
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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No comparison at all: if I had to choose one I'd choose both. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21089 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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ThePageDude wrote: | No comparison at all: if I had to choose one I'd choose both. |
Exactly. |
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epic_ Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2020 Posts: 11310
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Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Alex would have never allowed us to lose that game! _________________ 💜💛 🏆 👀 🍖 #18!!! |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 16799
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