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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40311 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:11 pm Post subject: NETS -at- LAKERS - 1-19-24 - Thoughts and :-(( Ratings |
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”It’s Over for the Excuses, Man”... The Lakers came out in the second half of this one like they had just finished stuffing themselves at an all-you-can-eat buffet during halftime. There was no resistance on defense, and it was the Nets that feasted on the court.
The Lakers pulled out to an early 13-point lead behind a strong scoring first quarter from D’Angelo Russell as he sank three threes along with a couple transition scores.
Cam Thomas gave the Nets some scoring punch off the bench, however, going 6-6 early on and ending the half with 20 points.
The Lakers led 68-62 at the half, but that was quickly erased in the third. The Nets were feeling no resistance on D from the Lakers as the game went along. They were firing at will and with ease. Out of the gates in the second half, they quickly flipped the tables and never looked back.
They extended to a 10-point lead beating the Lakers 38-22 in the third.
As the Lakers missed easy ones, continued to give up scores or fouls on D, the Nets pulled out to a 20-point lead and the game was over midway through the quarter.
The Lakers were outscored 68-44 in the second half and lost badly, 130-112.
“We have to decide which team we are going to be,” Ham said. He later added, “It’s over for the excuses, man. We’ve got to play basketball.”
LeBron -- -- He had 16 in the first half, hitting back-to-back threes in the second quarter, including one from the logo. He had a couple of And-1 scores at the rim, one on a break with Prince, the other after gathering a ball in the backcourt and then gathering speed to overpower his man on his way to the rim. In the post in the second half, he struggled. He missed several chippies and a couple point-blank layups. Those were painful. He looked like he was getting frustrated with everything in the fourth. He’d get downhill with some intention possibly as a result.The Stats: He scored 24 points on 9-22 shooting (2-5 from three, 4-5 from the line) to go with 11 boards (5 offensive), 5 assists, 4 turnovers and no fouls in 34 minutes. He was a -13.
Davis -- -- Again, some great passing out of the double teams. He found Russell for a three and Bron cutting for a dunk when the Nets sent doubles early. When they went single coverage, he attacked for easy scores at the rim. Active on the offensive glass for a putback cleaning up a missed drive by Reaves and drawing FTs on another putback attempt early on. Throw in some pick and roll or pick and pop and he had 17 points on 7-7 shooting to go with 7 boards and 4 assists at the half. In the second half, he was missing a number of chippies and grew frustrated like Bron. I think the two of them must have missed 5 or 6 easy ones. If he wasn’t back on D, the Nets were attacking with speed before we could get set up. The Stats: He scored 26 points on 9-13 shooting (0-1 from three, 8-11 from the line) to go with 12 boards, 6 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 35 minutes. He was a -12.
Russell -- -- Out of the gates on fire again, he buried three threes in the first quarter along with a couple of transition scores to lead the team with 13 points on 5-8 shooting. He’d hit a runner and draw some FTs to finish with 17 at the half. He'd score just 3 in the seconds half. Defensively, three fouls early in the fourth out of a timeout killed Laker momentum after a couple Laker made buckets. That was 3 fouls in about 30 seconds. Ham sat him down 15. Really a bad stretch there to suck the life out of the team. The Stats: He scored 20 points on 7-14 shooting (3-5 from three, 3-3 from the line) to go with 1 board, 7 assists, 1 steal, 2 turnovers and 4 fouls in 35 minutes. He was a -16.
Reaves -- -- The Nets came out with all the confidence in the world in the third quarter and started lighting the Lakers up. Trailing by 6, the Lakers got back-to-back stop and layups by Reaves in transition to force a timeout. Those were the only scores on a 16-4 stretch for the Nets. Defensively, he fouled a couple three shooters during this stretch. He struggled with the three ball, although a couple of those were tough chucks to beat the clock. The Stats: He scored 9 points on 4-12 shooting (0-6 from three, 1-1 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 5 assists, 1 steal and 2 fouls in 33 minutes. He was a -13.
Prince -- -- He sank a couple of threes in the first half. Made a nice pass to Bron on the break. He leaned in and banked a short one. He earned some FTs attacking a closeout. Also swung a pass out of bounds and threw an ill-advised post feed into AD who was being fronted with backside help for another turnover. Defensively, no disruption. Too many minutes for him tonight. We could have used 6-7 less and more for Vando. Nets just didn’t care we were on the court defensively. The Stats: He scored 10 points on 3-7 shooting (2-4 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 3 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal, 3 turnovers and 1 foul in 29 minutes. He wa s -12.
Hachimura -- -- Stone cold. Missed baseline jumper. Missed a layup in the post. Missed a three way short. Missed another three from the corner. Missed a wide open corner three that he had all day on. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-6 shooting (0-3 from three) to go with 2 boards, 1 assist, 1 turnover and no fouls in 15 minutes. He was a -1.
Vanderbilt -- -- We really needed his D on the court more. The Nets were not feeling anyone. Vando was even hitting his threes. The team tried to throw zone out there at times against the Nets, but it wasn’t with Vando on the floor, which was what was more successful previously. I cringe anytime I see it without him. We put Vando on Cam Thomas in Vando’s rotation in the second half. Good work by Vando. A little quiet defensively in the first half. The Stats: He scored 12 points on 5-5 shooting (2-2 from three) to go with 5 boards and no fouls in 19 minutes. He was a -10.
Wood -- -- He sank a garbage time three for his first score with about a minute left. He’d then get some FTs. Game was well over. The Stats: He scored 5 points on 1-6 shooting (1-3 from three, 2-2 from the line) to go with 4 boards, 3 assists, 1 steal and 1 turnover in 11 minutes. He was a -7.
Christie -- -- He sank a couple of catch and shoot threes when Russell found him open on the wings. He also made a nice swing pass to Bron for a three. The Stats: He scored 6 points on 2-3 shooting from three to go with 2 boards, 1 assists, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 19 minutes. He was a -6.
Hayes -- -- In for garbage time, running with Wood. He airballed a three in front of the Laker bench. The Stats: He was 0-1 from three and didn’t score in 3 minutes. He was a +0.
Hood-Schifino -- -- He threw an inbounds pass away after a made basket for an And-1 for the Nets. Welcome back, JHS. The Stats: He didn’t score on 0-1 shooting to go with 1 board, 1 assist, 1 turnover and 1 foul in 3 minutes. He was a +0.
Lewis -- -- Nothing to report in his 3 minutes of garbage time. The Stats: He had no stats in 3 minutes. He was a +0.
Ham -- -- Key Moment: “It was all clicking,” Ham said of the Lakers first half. “They started to make a run and it just all fell apart.” Just an awful defensive effort in the second half. They didn’t compete well. The Nets were just going right through the Laker guards defensively or shooting right over them. The Lakers D got scrambled with double teams and struggled to recover. “Shotmaking shouldn’t dictate how you compete,” Ham said.
Key Substitution: They needed more defensively energy and fire out there. Vando and AD were the only ones giving you some resistance on that end of the floor. Should have given Vando a few more minutes in this one and some other guys less.
Key Stats: The Lakers had 20 assists with just 4 turnovers in the first half. Both shot 42 percent from three in the first half. The Lakers made 8-19 from three, the Nets made 11-26. Normally, those kinds of numbers would result in a big lead, but the Nets were still right there. No defense by L.A. The Nets would make another 8 threes in the second half. Lakers scoring by quarter: 37, 31, 22, 22. Nets: 28, 34, 38, 30. |
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Bron2AD Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2021 Posts: 9752
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ham F |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8639 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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I said this in the game thread: I think this team has an attitude problem. Maybe they take teams like the Nets too lightly, and when things start to turn against them they seem to make things even worse for themselves.
We've seen them beat the Thunder (twice), the Clippers (twice), the Mavs, the Pacers, the Pelicans and the Cavs. Those are all good teams. But we've also lost to crap teams like the Spurs, Bulls, Grizzlies and now the Nets.
Two years ago when they had Russ and Melo they had a casual attitude and thought all they needed was the final play-in spot to win the chip. It's really starting to feel like certain players on this team may have that same craptastic attitude this season. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 18502
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | I said this in the game thread: I think this team has an attitude problem. Maybe they take teams like the Nets too lightly, and when things start to turn against them they seem to make things even worse for themselves.
We've seen them beat the Thunder (twice), the Clippers (twice), the Mavs, the Pacers, the Pelicans and the Cavs. Those are all good teams. But we've also lost to crap teams like the Spurs, Bulls, Grizzlies and now the Nets.
Two years ago when they had Russ and Melo they had a casual attitude and thought all they needed was the final play-in spot to win the chip. It's really starting to feel like certain players on this team may have that same craptastic attitude this season. |
We have also lost to good teams. _________________ Kobe.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Clw9scopegx/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= |
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slavavov Star Player
Joined: 03 Oct 2003 Posts: 8639 Location: Santa Monica
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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Halflife wrote: | slavavov wrote: | I said this in the game thread: I think this team has an attitude problem. Maybe they take teams like the Nets too lightly, and when things start to turn against them they seem to make things even worse for themselves.
We've seen them beat the Thunder (twice), the Clippers (twice), the Mavs, the Pacers, the Pelicans and the Cavs. Those are all good teams. But we've also lost to crap teams like the Spurs, Bulls, Grizzlies and now the Nets.
Two years ago when they had Russ and Melo they had a casual attitude and thought all they needed was the final play-in spot to win the chip. It's really starting to feel like certain players on this team may have that same craptastic attitude this season. |
We have also lost to good teams. |
Yeah, but overall we haven't done that badly against good teams. That seems to suggest we should be doing really well against bad and mediocre teams. _________________ Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers |
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Snipes Star Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 6756
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | Halflife wrote: | slavavov wrote: | I said this in the game thread: I think this team has an attitude problem. Maybe they take teams like the Nets too lightly, and when things start to turn against them they seem to make things even worse for themselves.
We've seen them beat the Thunder (twice), the Clippers (twice), the Mavs, the Pacers, the Pelicans and the Cavs. Those are all good teams. But we've also lost to crap teams like the Spurs, Bulls, Grizzlies and now the Nets.
Two years ago when they had Russ and Melo they had a casual attitude and thought all they needed was the final play-in spot to win the chip. It's really starting to feel like certain players on this team may have that same craptastic attitude this season. |
We have also lost to good teams. |
Yeah, but overall we haven't done that badly against good teams. That seems to suggest we should be doing really well against bad and mediocre teams. |
Yeah I kinda get what you’re saying and if it’s true it’s a good sign. I rather have an attitude/motivation problem over a talent or we’re not good enough problem. Mental breakdowns are easier to fix throughout the year. |
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Nobody Star Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008 Posts: 5791 Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia
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Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2024 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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Checked out when the wheels came off in the 3rd. I don't intend to waste my time on a team that so clearly lacks effort. Out-hustled by a much inferior team. |
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TMG Star Player
Joined: 02 Jan 2019 Posts: 6975
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 12:26 am Post subject: |
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How the hell did we get blown out by the 17-24 brooklyn nets? |
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eddiejonze Star Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2013 Posts: 7490
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Nets went small and we should have matched their size...And people seem to get in fits when I point out the officiating but the refs seem to call more fouls for the more aggressive team...I call it "rigging" because it should be called the same way every time but i digress: In the end, Ham is in way over his head and he should only be an assistant coach.
Head coach is way above his ability. _________________ Creatures crawl in search of blood, To terrorize y'alls neighborhood. |
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governator Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 26063
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:44 am Post subject: |
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Vando… 19, shoulda been on cam Thomas for the last 3Q like a shadow, coulda help crash the offensive boards for our misses. Bad loss _________________ “The main goal for the Lakers is to win a championship. All I care about, all we care about, is to raise another banner in the rafters.“ |
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PenG_ Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2020 Posts: 10602
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:49 am Post subject: |
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The hubris of this team is incredible. They think every game against non-playoff teams is a YMCA match.
Sick of it |
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wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58781
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:49 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Yeah, but overall we haven't done that badly against good teams. That seems to suggest we should be doing really well against bad and mediocre teams. |
Lakers record vs "Good " teams. I guess we can define good as teams above .500?
Nuggets 0-1
OKC 2-0
Kings 0-2
Mavs 1-1
played.
Magic 1-1
Heat 0-2
Cavs 1-0
Sixers 0-1
Pels 1-1
Knicks 0-1
Wolves 0-2
Clippers 2-0 (1 win without Harden)
Boston 0-1
Suns 0-1 * (3 wins vs with no Beal/Booker)
They are actually 8-14 vs .500 or better teams, but if you want to quantify injuries you take into account the Suns games and injuries/rest games to Lebron, and we're 9-14 with Lebron vs .500 or better teams.
I guess you could argue that this team should win all their games against sub .500 teams but there are some competitive good sub .500 teams like Houston, Nets, Utah.
Ironically I realized I haven't counted Utah, and they've been playing like a good team. I think there are only about 4-6 really bad teams right now in the league and we did beat them (Charlotte, Portland, Detroit etc). It's not that we're losing to tanking or bad teams trying to get the #1 lottery pick in 2024 draft.
I believe this isn't a well coached team, that doesn't have enough players who trust their coach, and at the same time, we're not as good on offense as thought we'd be because we're lacking 3 point shooting, something that has become a must to be an elite team on offense. The defensive tactics we employ where we're allowing teams to shoot many 3s on us is a really harmful tactic. That alone, I would say would cut 3-4 losses out of our record. |
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ribeye Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2001 Posts: 13181
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Somebody told the Lakers they needed to come out stronger to start the game.
And they did. But trading (bleep) starts for (bleep) finishes was not the lesson. _________________ "A metronome keeps time by using a Ringo" |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6311
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:31 am Post subject: |
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Having the right attitude and focus is a leadership issue
If one is just not making shots that night (Rui), there are other ways to affect the game
Odd talking about leadership on the court when you have LBJ and AD playing. Ham can’t coach energy.
If the Nets go small, ball should always start with AD getting the ball in the paint
3pt shooting - isn’t that what Rui, DLo, CWood and others suppose to provide?
If the Lakers don’t kill the Blazers, our biggest problem has been identified and highlighted |
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Laker7 Star Player
Joined: 24 Feb 2003 Posts: 6467 Location: Past left field
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:38 am Post subject: |
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To quote Major Payne "got a little attitudinal problem needs some readjustin'. _________________ Darvin Ham is an idiot! |
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Halflife Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Aug 2015 Posts: 18502
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 7:53 am Post subject: |
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slavavov wrote: | Halflife wrote: | slavavov wrote: | I said this in the game thread: I think this team has an attitude problem. Maybe they take teams like the Nets too lightly, and when things start to turn against them they seem to make things even worse for themselves.
We've seen them beat the Thunder (twice), the Clippers (twice), the Mavs, the Pacers, the Pelicans and the Cavs. Those are all good teams. But we've also lost to crap teams like the Spurs, Bulls, Grizzlies and now the Nets.
Two years ago when they had Russ and Melo they had a casual attitude and thought all they needed was the final play-in spot to win the chip. It's really starting to feel like certain players on this team may have that same craptastic attitude this season. |
We have also lost to good teams. |
Yeah, but overall we haven't done that badly against good teams. That seems to suggest we should be doing really well against bad and mediocre teams. |
We are mediocre.
We are 2-1 against okc, 2-0 against clippers. 2-1 against suns. Hopefully we beat the clippers next week but our record does not have anything special outside of okc win on their court. _________________ Kobe.
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jab Starting Rotation
Joined: 21 Jan 2012 Posts: 158
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 10:00 am Post subject: |
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This team as presently constructed us not winning anything. They are not a top ten team in the West. Changes must be made if any success is expected. They have no “ fire” and not enough firepower. Its a combination of things and people well above my pay grade have to make changes. Without changes this is what we as fans are gonna get, an inconsistent product that plays lackadaisical ball that wins about half the time. |
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TDRock Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 50823 Location: LA to the Bay
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Thanks DB |
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DancingBarry Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001 Posts: 40311 Location: O.C.
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:37 am Post subject: |
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Some big issues in this game:
- We didn’t lean into a more defensive mindset when it was clear we needed to. We got punched in the mouth and kept letting it happen. From coaches to players, it got worse as the game went along. Almost pouting and going through the motions at times. Russell with those three fouls in a few seconds was the most emblematic moment of this that comes to mind. That or maybe not leaning into more Vando. That’s concerning. We just slept walked.
- Our lack of play calling in the second half went down dramatically. That’s on coaching and floor leadership. Atrocious process. It’s one thing you can control. When Reaves is mentioning we were freelancing too much, who is this on? Why are you letting the team go away from what works? Either Ham isn’t play calling like he should or guys are ignoring him. Either way it’s a coaching issue. Quit player blaming and take control.
- Who is our Draymond Green, Udonis Harlem type? The guy who will get on your ass for sleepwalking and not playing D. Only guy I can think of is maybe Handy. But I just don’t see that “one guy” who you have to answer to when you are screwing up on D, not giving the right effort or not even on the same scheme. (Russell, Prince, Bron, Rui, Wood … all need that guy on a random January game against a struggling Nets team.) |
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A Mad Chinaman Star Player
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 6311
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:59 am Post subject: |
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DancingBarry wrote: | Some big issues in this game:
- We didn’t lean into a more defensive mindset when it was clear we needed to. We got punched in the mouth and kept letting it happen. From coaches to players, it got worse as the game went along. Almost pouting and going through the motions at times. Russell with those three fouls in a few seconds was the most emblematic moment of this that comes to mind. That or maybe not leaning into more Vando. That’s concerning. We just slept walked. | Leadershipship and Lack of Black Mamba Mentality DancingBarry wrote: | - Our lack of play calling in the second half went down dramatically. That’s on coaching and floor leadership. Atrocious process. It’s one thing you can control. When Reaves is mentioning we were freelancing too much, who is this on? Why are you letting the team go away from what works? Either Ham isn’t play calling like he should or guys are ignoring him. Either way it’s a coaching issue. Quit player blaming and take control. | Floor Leadership, then Coaching.
With LBJ and AD on the floor, which player will gather the others to get focus to do our jobs to the standards that they should be playing at. Has anybody seen these two great players go up to another player on the court to highlight/identify that the need to up their game (like when DLo went off the reservation with his three quick fouls?).
Ham does not have the cachet of a Spoelstra or Pop (not many HCs do!) to immediately take players out (especially LBJ/AD) if what is on the floor is not working or the players are not putting in the needed effort. Even subbing all the players not name AD and LBJ hasn't been done. DancingBarry wrote: | - Who is our Draymond Green, Udonis Harlem type? The guy who will get on your ass for sleepwalking and not playing D. Only guy I can think of is maybe Handy. But I just don’t see that “one guy” who you have to answer to when you are screwing up on D, not giving the right effort or not even on the same scheme. (Russell, Prince, Bron, Rui, Wood … all need that guy on a random January game against a struggling Nets team.) | Picking a player (Draymond, Haslem) then identifying a coach (Handy)? Who is the Heart/Passion of this Laker team? LBJ is the GOAT, AD is the Superstar, AR is the Everyday Hard Hat Man, DLo is the Wild Card and Prince is the Invisible Man.
Vando is not the leader of any group, but with his energy inspiring and embarassing the other players - manybe it would kick-start/elevate the energy level of the players on the court.
Vincent, when healthy, hopefully will bring the hard-hat/Heat Culture Mentality that would motivate the players on the court. Even adding a Dejounte Murray (very good player) hasn't displayed the mental toughness needed to consistently win.
Last year, team had a focus because it had a limited window time. This team has allowed numerous excuses to hide their inconsistencies.
Could Vincent (when healthy) be our version of PatBev meets Dennis Schroeder on the court?
We have seen where KD (definitely a GOAT) not display the leadership needed to win rings like Jimmy Buckets - who is definitely not as talentedly and physically gifted as AD. |
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Rek Star Player
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 2236 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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Too many capable players on the roster for these results repeatedly.
Ham has to go. |
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JerryWest_44 Retired Number
Joined: 22 May 2004 Posts: 26325
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Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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PenG_ wrote: | The hubris of this team is incredible. They think every game against non-playoff teams is a YMCA match.
Sick of it |
yup -- team plays disinterested all the time.... |
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