Dejounte Murray: Woj - Lakers/Hawks have exchanged some ideas
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:42 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
MJST wrote:
governator wrote:
Kindly summarize argument and reply in one 3 lines paragraph por favor


You'll need to read this first.

Quote:
@Trevor_Lane
The DLo-Reaves-Vando-LeBron-Davis group currently has a Def Rtg of 88.9, which would be the best in the NBA by a HUGE margin (number 1 is MIN at 109), though it's unsustainable & a product of small sample size w/ just 32 minutes played as a group

Still, that's a crazy number.

The next-best Def Rtg of groups that have played at least 30 min is DLo-Prince-Cam-Rui-Davis at 104.1, then DLo-Prince-Christie-LeBron-Davis at 105.3

Kamenetzky Brothers
@KamBrothers
One of the takeaways here: A core tenet of defensive integrity for the Lakers is… the presence of D’Angelo Russell. AK #StrangeButTrue
"Isn’t it crazy how DLO is in every lineup with he best defensive rating but darvin ham really benched him for a whole month for defensive purposes and our defense plummeted?"


This is the case. Ham is continuing to ignore the analytics that tell us which lineups are the best and he continues to play the worst ones, which hamstrings us defensively. The DLO/AR/Vando/LBJ/AD lineup has an ORtg of 121.3 and a DRtg of 88.9 and Ham would rather "drink wine and sleep" than make it the starting lineup because it benches his precious Prince.
And the people that want a 'big trade' are ignoring that as a major reason for a lot of problems and the reality that our roster has shown it's capable enough, but that Ham is just sabotaging it by intentionally ignoring what the analytics are telling him.

That's more or less the TLDR


Even if we fire Ham and get that line up going, it will not stop other teams to keep hunting on Dlo in a playoff series nor will fix his lack of physical tools. And will not stop a 39 years old (who used to impose his will) to just settle for his poor percentage jumpshots.

Let me put it this way, Lebron is no longer in his PRIME to carry this team.


Replace Prince with Vanderbilt and the defense likely improves but the offense suffers. More offense or more defense? Tough decision but that is the choice you have when your GM fills the roster with one way players.


Well the offense doesn't suffer with a healthy Vando cutting to the basket, getting rebounds(that Prince never will) and hitting his corner threes. He's been averaging 10 points on 70% shooting on 24 MPG since getting healthier and getting minutes.

Prince on the other hand has been averaging 7 points on 38% from the field and 32% from three in that span of time and getting 27 MPG...


We went through the offseason saying we need shooters to stretch the floor for AD and Lebron. Like it or not Prince is a guy that opponents have to guard on the perimeter. He needs 20 mpg with Lebron and AD. Tough to cut when the defense packs the paint. Let me ask what the team’s record has been in that time span since you haven’t told us which games you cherry picked.
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Day
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 12:49 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
MJST wrote:
governator wrote:
Kindly summarize argument and reply in one 3 lines paragraph por favor


You'll need to read this first.

Quote:
@Trevor_Lane
The DLo-Reaves-Vando-LeBron-Davis group currently has a Def Rtg of 88.9, which would be the best in the NBA by a HUGE margin (number 1 is MIN at 109), though it's unsustainable & a product of small sample size w/ just 32 minutes played as a group

Still, that's a crazy number.

The next-best Def Rtg of groups that have played at least 30 min is DLo-Prince-Cam-Rui-Davis at 104.1, then DLo-Prince-Christie-LeBron-Davis at 105.3

Kamenetzky Brothers
@KamBrothers
One of the takeaways here: A core tenet of defensive integrity for the Lakers is… the presence of D’Angelo Russell. AK #StrangeButTrue
"Isn’t it crazy how DLO is in every lineup with he best defensive rating but darvin ham really benched him for a whole month for defensive purposes and our defense plummeted?"


This is the case. Ham is continuing to ignore the analytics that tell us which lineups are the best and he continues to play the worst ones, which hamstrings us defensively. The DLO/AR/Vando/LBJ/AD lineup has an ORtg of 121.3 and a DRtg of 88.9 and Ham would rather "drink wine and sleep" than make it the starting lineup because it benches his precious Prince.
And the people that want a 'big trade' are ignoring that as a major reason for a lot of problems and the reality that our roster has shown it's capable enough, but that Ham is just sabotaging it by intentionally ignoring what the analytics are telling him.

That's more or less the TLDR


Even if we fire Ham and get that line up going, it will not stop other teams to keep hunting on Dlo in a playoff series nor will fix his lack of physical tools. And will not stop a 39 years old (who used to impose his will) to just settle for his poor percentage jumpshots.

Let me put it this way, Lebron is no longer in his PRIME to carry this team.


Replace Prince with Vanderbilt and the defense likely improves but the offense suffers. More offense or more defense? Tough decision but that is the choice you have when your GM fills the roster with one way players.


Well the offense doesn't suffer with a healthy Vando cutting to the basket, getting rebounds(that Prince never will) and hitting his corner threes. He's been averaging 10 points on 70% shooting on 24 MPG since getting healthier and getting minutes.

Prince on the other hand has been averaging 7 points on 38% from the field and 32% from three in that span of time and getting 27 MPG...


We went through the offseason saying we need shooters to stretch the floor for AD and Lebron. Like it or not Prince is a guy that opponents have to guard on the perimeter. He needs 20 mpg with Lebron and AD. Tough to cut when the defense packs the paint. Let me ask what the team’s record has been in that time span since you haven’t told us which games you cherry picked.

What does the record have to do with anything when the lineup that he's advocating doesn't play together at all, let alone start the game together lol
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CRoost
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 2:06 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
MJST wrote:
governator wrote:
Kindly summarize argument and reply in one 3 lines paragraph por favor


You'll need to read this first.

Quote:
@Trevor_Lane
The DLo-Reaves-Vando-LeBron-Davis group currently has a Def Rtg of 88.9, which would be the best in the NBA by a HUGE margin (number 1 is MIN at 109), though it's unsustainable & a product of small sample size w/ just 32 minutes played as a group

Still, that's a crazy number.

The next-best Def Rtg of groups that have played at least 30 min is DLo-Prince-Cam-Rui-Davis at 104.1, then DLo-Prince-Christie-LeBron-Davis at 105.3

Kamenetzky Brothers
@KamBrothers
One of the takeaways here: A core tenet of defensive integrity for the Lakers is… the presence of D’Angelo Russell. AK #StrangeButTrue
"Isn’t it crazy how DLO is in every lineup with he best defensive rating but darvin ham really benched him for a whole month for defensive purposes and our defense plummeted?"


This is the case. Ham is continuing to ignore the analytics that tell us which lineups are the best and he continues to play the worst ones, which hamstrings us defensively. The DLO/AR/Vando/LBJ/AD lineup has an ORtg of 121.3 and a DRtg of 88.9 and Ham would rather "drink wine and sleep" than make it the starting lineup because it benches his precious Prince.
And the people that want a 'big trade' are ignoring that as a major reason for a lot of problems and the reality that our roster has shown it's capable enough, but that Ham is just sabotaging it by intentionally ignoring what the analytics are telling him.

That's more or less the TLDR


Even if we fire Ham and get that line up going, it will not stop other teams to keep hunting on Dlo in a playoff series nor will fix his lack of physical tools. And will not stop a 39 years old (who used to impose his will) to just settle for his poor percentage jumpshots.

Let me put it this way, Lebron is no longer in his PRIME to carry this team.


Replace Prince with Vanderbilt and the defense likely improves but the offense suffers. More offense or more defense? Tough decision but that is the choice you have when your GM fills the roster with one way players.


This is a not tough decision. This is common sense. We have enough offense and spacing with Dlo and AR. What we need is Vando defense and his length to cover a lot of shortcomings plus Lebron coasting. AD can’t do it alone. Vando balance things out.
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lar9149
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2024 3:13 pm    Post subject:

CRoost wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
MJST wrote:
governator wrote:
Kindly summarize argument and reply in one 3 lines paragraph por favor


You'll need to read this first.

Quote:
@Trevor_Lane
The DLo-Reaves-Vando-LeBron-Davis group currently has a Def Rtg of 88.9, which would be the best in the NBA by a HUGE margin (number 1 is MIN at 109), though it's unsustainable & a product of small sample size w/ just 32 minutes played as a group

Still, that's a crazy number.

The next-best Def Rtg of groups that have played at least 30 min is DLo-Prince-Cam-Rui-Davis at 104.1, then DLo-Prince-Christie-LeBron-Davis at 105.3

Kamenetzky Brothers
@KamBrothers
One of the takeaways here: A core tenet of defensive integrity for the Lakers is… the presence of D’Angelo Russell. AK #StrangeButTrue
"Isn’t it crazy how DLO is in every lineup with he best defensive rating but darvin ham really benched him for a whole month for defensive purposes and our defense plummeted?"


This is the case. Ham is continuing to ignore the analytics that tell us which lineups are the best and he continues to play the worst ones, which hamstrings us defensively. The DLO/AR/Vando/LBJ/AD lineup has an ORtg of 121.3 and a DRtg of 88.9 and Ham would rather "drink wine and sleep" than make it the starting lineup because it benches his precious Prince.
And the people that want a 'big trade' are ignoring that as a major reason for a lot of problems and the reality that our roster has shown it's capable enough, but that Ham is just sabotaging it by intentionally ignoring what the analytics are telling him.

That's more or less the TLDR


Even if we fire Ham and get that line up going, it will not stop other teams to keep hunting on Dlo in a playoff series nor will fix his lack of physical tools. And will not stop a 39 years old (who used to impose his will) to just settle for his poor percentage jumpshots.

Let me put it this way, Lebron is no longer in his PRIME to carry this team.


Replace Prince with Vanderbilt and the defense likely improves but the offense suffers. More offense or more defense? Tough decision but that is the choice you have when your GM fills the roster with one way players.


This is a not tough decision. This is common sense. We have enough offense and spacing with Dlo and AR. What we need is Vando defense and his length to cover a lot of shortcomings plus Lebron coasting. AD can’t do it alone. Vando balance things out.


Putting much been the revolving door argument for starting Vando that everyone seems to understand except for ONE PERSON!
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JUST-MING
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 10:48 am    Post subject:

We need Dejounte Murray for his defense .

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roger_federer
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 6:56 pm    Post subject:

dodged a bullet
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:30 pm    Post subject:

JUST-MING wrote:
We need Dejounte Murray for his defense .



Definitely showing off his all star defense credentials
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E_Wulf420
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 7:54 pm    Post subject:

Time to move this thread or
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Japago
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2024 8:36 pm    Post subject:

Wow, 1 play where better rim protection would've made a difference. Even great defenders get beaten like that every once in awhile.

I still think he could be a good defender in the right situation.

Being an impact defender is hard when the team around you is terrible on defense. His back-court mate has been one of the worst defenders in the league since his been in the league. The Hawks are next to last in defensive efficiency.

1 guard defender isn't going to make a difference on a team THAT bad on defense.

Avery Bradley had horrible defensive advanced stats before joining the Lakers. It was because he was on a horrible defensive team in DET.

I honestly think he would be a good defender on team that's not as hopeless on defense as the Hawks are on defense.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/lakers-players-defensive-rating-this-season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-hawks-players

In a vacuum, Murray has a worse number on defensive efficiency than AR and D'Lo.

But look at their placements relative to their teammates. Murray is the 4th best on his team. He's middle of the pack out of the 8 players they listed.

AR and D'Lo are last on the Lakers out of any players of that have gotten meaningful minutes.
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