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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 8272
Location: San Diego, CA
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 Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | You ever noticed the nash doesn't score or make a good pass when LO goes out there on him, on a switch? |
its true that longer players bother him but LO is a bad example because LO usually gives Nash enough room to knock down the open jumper because he is afraid of nash taking him off the dribble.
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"When (Kobe) gets you on life support, he won't give you mouth to mouth. HE PULLS THE PLUG." -stu |
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Mr. EiGhTy-OnE
Star Player
Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 8272
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: Re: LAKERS -at- KINGS - 4/18 - Thoughts and :-)) ratings |
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| DancingBarry wrote: |
Cook --  -- Cook played just 3 minutes and didn't score on two attempts. Defensively on Artest for a short stint. Cook had a shot blocked and missed a three.
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you forgot to mention the play where he tried to do a no look bounce pass, turned the ball over, and didnt run (or even walk) back on defense, which led to a 4 on 1 break the other way (as he just stood there)
_________________
"When (Kobe) gets you on life support, he won't give you mouth to mouth. HE PULLS THE PLUG." -stu
Last edited by Mr. EiGhTy-OnE on Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lamar's Bud
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 2258
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Luke wrote: | | fifth_rune wrote: | We've only had 1 win against a winning team for the last two months!?!? Holy crap is that scary.
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Who cares, now we are going to play an entire different game called playoffs... |
I HATE how this "fact" is being represented. Yes we've been struggling the past few months, but this "fact" is beyond exaggerated. While it may be true, it's impossible to beat winning teams when most of the games were against teams with sub .500 records (since beating Utah Feb 26th - our last win vs. a team w/ a winning record)
Games played/Teams since March 1:
With a losing record (at the time of the game):
3 - SAC (2-1)
2 - SEA (2-0)
2 - LAC (0-2)
2 - MEM (1-1)
2 - MIN (1-1)
1 - MIL (0-1)
1 - PHI (0-1)
1 - NOK (1-0)
1 - POR (1-0)
1 - GS (1-0)
Games played - 16 (9-7 record)
With a winning record (at the time):
3 - PHO (0-3)
3 - DEN (0-3)
1 - HOU (0-1)
1 - DAL (0-1)
Games played - 8 (0-8 record)
2/3 of our games in Mar/Apr were against teams with sub .500 records. We also played 5 of 8 against teams in the "top 4" of the west.
I'm not making excuses by any means because it IS true that we've been playing like crap since March started. However, I'm just irritated at how only half of the "truth" gets mentioned in such a "fact". It's like saying "We haven't beaten an Eastern Conference team in March & April." Sounds bad, right? Well we've only played 2 of the last 24 games against EC teams during that time (1 of which Kobe was suspended). Pretty easy to make something seem more drastic when only half of the truth is being represented. |
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ProjectAB
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 1729
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| encina1 wrote: | | ProjectAB wrote: | | DancingBarry wrote: | ProjectAB - He's learning. I think in the preseason game against the Kings, he didn't know how to handle their smaller players...but since then, he's taken it to them. Once he starts getting his strength up and becoming more and more difficult to handle by bigger players, he should be doing some similar things to those bigger players. When he came into the league, he had absolutely no idea how to play above the rim. Yao had similar issues in the post (but could rely on his superior perimeter game to be effective). Yao learned to bang and finish strong, but it took a bit to get him there. Yao also struggled with playing through fatigue. Bynum's going through a similar growth in the mental side. Once he gets the strength up and the mental game up, he'll be a load...
...but he's got to put in the hard work to get there. |
I think he's already had to put in a lot of hard work to get to this point. He's played all 82 games, an amazing accomplishment for someone who used to be full of fat cells. And he looks way more athletic now than when he was in the summer league.
Seriously, if being fat hasn't handicapped him at all, then I wonder now if losing those cells would actually help him a lot more, because I believe that if you have a disposition to be fat(which he appears to be), then your organs must be built a little stronger to accomodate the extra cells(otherwise he would probably die of a heart attack because his body couldn't store the fat quickly enough). And now that he lost those cells, the load on his organs are a lot less.
On the other hand, he may have already benefited from that, due to the fact that he would probably be out of the league already if he had kept his fat shape. |
Hey, Oliver Miller lasted in the league a long time. It can happen.
The other problem I have with Bynum is his enthusiasm.
"Wait," you may say, "how could enthusiasm be a bad thing?"
Bynum gets a little too excited to block everything. And when he does, he picks up dumb fouls. When a little guy goes flying, Bynum shouldn't jump up at him to try to block everything. That is how he is picking up most of his fouls. I think it is ridiculous that referees reward a player for jumping into another player, but Bynum has to be smart about not giving the refs an excuse to call a foul on him. If he stands his ground, holds his hands straight up, he can either disrupt the shot, or get a block, or get an offensive foul called. Yes, he may still be called for a foul as well, but it is less guaranteed that he does than if he jumps up and into the offensive player.
But all this comes with experience and he will get there. Hopefully a lot sooner, because I can see Steve Nash running into the post and trying to pick up some of those dumb fouls on Andrew. |
I wouldn't say jumping into the defender as much as bringing his arms down. He tries too hard to play perfect D because he's afraid they'll still make the shots against his weak arms. All of this should change though, as he gets a little stronger. |
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Alpha
Moderator
Joined: 07 Jul 2002
Posts: 25154
Location: hawaii
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| KOBEhastheMAGIC wrote: | | I think you mean 10-12 from the line for Kobe. Thanks as always!!! |
Thanks KhtM!... i was like  wha?! Kobe majorly bricked from the line?!? 
lol 
Thanks for the great job this season DB!!!  |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40213
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| prisma8slg wrote: | | ocho wrote: | DB- i know it's a cliche but i'm gonna do it anyway.
this being the last game of the season i wanna thank you for your reports which i look forward to every day. we can all look forward to a long summer of trade speculation and rampant rumors....and a whole lot of mitch bashing. the one constant during the season is reading your thoughts and ratings. as frustrating as this board can be at times we always have your column to read.
another season of great work. can't wait to read the playoff reports and the next season.
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agreed.  thanks DB!!! I just love seeing the : -)) in the morning |
Thanks, guys. |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40213
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | Lakers need to come up with a much better defensive strategy vs the Suns if they really want to have a chance of winning the series.
I would advise mixing in a 3-2 zone every 3rd or 4th time down the floor to try and throw the Suns off. That and tell the PG (be it Smush, Farmar or The Irritant) to stay back on defense to not get beat for the Cherry Pick basket the Suns specialize in.
If the Lakers just stay in a predictable, straight up man defense, Nash is going to pick them apart. |
I am no basketball expert, just a basketball fan, so please someone help me with this suggestion. The zone is supposed to help against interior play, but the one way to crush a zone is to shoot well from outside. Uhm, aren't the Suns the best team in the league at shooting from outside, including 3-pointers? Will a zone really help this? |
A 3-2 zone means three defenders up top and 2 back on the baseline.
What this will do is force the Suns to take long shots with a hand in their face rather than watching our PGs get beat easily off the dribble by Nash, have the defense collapse inside and then Nash kicks it out to a wide open 3 pt shooter.
My observation of the Suns is their 3 pt game is deadly and has to be controlled. It is much harder to make a 3 pt shot with a hand in your face than it is when you are spotting up in your favorite spot and getting a wide open look because no one can stay in front of Nash.
I am not saying run it all the time, but it would be very wise to mix in a significant portion of zone if the Lakers really want to win the series instead of just talking about winning.
What the zone does give up is offensive rebounds. That is a calculated risk I think the Lakers have to take, the Suns are not a great rebounding team anyway and hopefully LO and Kwame (being the 2 on the baseline in a 3-2 zone) could handle most of the boards even from a zone.
If the Lakers just do the typical, lazy, Phil Jackson style man defense with no surprises or adjustments, Phoenix is going to work them over big time.
It is time for Jackson to start earning his money. He needs to be much more forceful with the team, much more proactive in calling timeouts and have a much better defensive strategy than anything he has displayed in the last two years.
That is again, if they actually want to win. I am sensing the Lakers are happy just to be in the playoffs, they don't seem to be really planning on getting it done in watching their D over the last month. |
I thought the D against the Suns last time out was pretty solid.
Phil tends to go to the zone when we're getting killed on the pick and roll. So, it could be that we do see some zone mixed in. I can't recall which recent game it was, maybe Seattle, but we started going audible to a zone to mix it up. I think they'd yell "blue" and switch to the zone for the possession. They did that a few times and it seemed effective. Phil could very well be preparing them to mix in a little zone like you've suggested against the Suns. |
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DancingBarry
Editor-in-Chief
Joined: 07 Sep 2001
Posts: 40213
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Alpha wrote: | | KOBEhastheMAGIC wrote: | | I think you mean 10-12 from the line for Kobe. Thanks as always!!! |
Thanks KhtM!... i was like wha?! Kobe majorly bricked from the line?!?
lol
Thanks for the great job this season DB!!! |
Fixed. |
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ProjectAB
Star Player
Joined: 31 Jan 2007
Posts: 1729
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| DancingBarry wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | Lakers need to come up with a much better defensive strategy vs the Suns if they really want to have a chance of winning the series.
I would advise mixing in a 3-2 zone every 3rd or 4th time down the floor to try and throw the Suns off. That and tell the PG (be it Smush, Farmar or The Irritant) to stay back on defense to not get beat for the Cherry Pick basket the Suns specialize in.
If the Lakers just stay in a predictable, straight up man defense, Nash is going to pick them apart. |
I am no basketball expert, just a basketball fan, so please someone help me with this suggestion. The zone is supposed to help against interior play, but the one way to crush a zone is to shoot well from outside. Uhm, aren't the Suns the best team in the league at shooting from outside, including 3-pointers? Will a zone really help this? |
A 3-2 zone means three defenders up top and 2 back on the baseline.
What this will do is force the Suns to take long shots with a hand in their face rather than watching our PGs get beat easily off the dribble by Nash, have the defense collapse inside and then Nash kicks it out to a wide open 3 pt shooter.
My observation of the Suns is their 3 pt game is deadly and has to be controlled. It is much harder to make a 3 pt shot with a hand in your face than it is when you are spotting up in your favorite spot and getting a wide open look because no one can stay in front of Nash.
I am not saying run it all the time, but it would be very wise to mix in a significant portion of zone if the Lakers really want to win the series instead of just talking about winning.
What the zone does give up is offensive rebounds. That is a calculated risk I think the Lakers have to take, the Suns are not a great rebounding team anyway and hopefully LO and Kwame (being the 2 on the baseline in a 3-2 zone) could handle most of the boards even from a zone.
If the Lakers just do the typical, lazy, Phil Jackson style man defense with no surprises or adjustments, Phoenix is going to work them over big time.
It is time for Jackson to start earning his money. He needs to be much more forceful with the team, much more proactive in calling timeouts and have a much better defensive strategy than anything he has displayed in the last two years.
That is again, if they actually want to win. I am sensing the Lakers are happy just to be in the playoffs, they don't seem to be really planning on getting it done in watching their D over the last month. |
I thought the D against the Suns last time out was pretty solid.
Phil tends to go to the zone when we're getting killed on the pick and roll. So, it could be that we do see some zone mixed in. I can't recall which recent game it was, maybe Seattle, but we started going audible to a zone to mix it up. I think they'd yell "blue" and switch to the zone for the possession. They did that a few times and it seemed effective. Phil could very well be preparing them to mix in a little zone like you've suggested against the Suns. |
"Blue" huh? Not worried that a Suns assistant coach may be hanging around these forums and marked that down? |
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KingKoBE_8
Starting Rotation
Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Posts: 329
Location: The Bay
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| to be successful in the Suns series we need this type of game from Lamar badly. I still have faith in "the goods" so we'll get it this time. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90310
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLanny wrote: | | encina1 wrote: | | LakerLanny wrote: | Lakers need to come up with a much better defensive strategy vs the Suns if they really want to have a chance of winning the series.
I would advise mixing in a 3-2 zone every 3rd or 4th time down the floor to try and throw the Suns off. That and tell the PG (be it Smush, Farmar or The Irritant) to stay back on defense to not get beat for the Cherry Pick basket the Suns specialize in.
If the Lakers just stay in a predictable, straight up man defense, Nash is going to pick them apart. |
I am no basketball expert, just a basketball fan, so please someone help me with this suggestion. The zone is supposed to help against interior play, but the one way to crush a zone is to shoot well from outside. Uhm, aren't the Suns the best team in the league at shooting from outside, including 3-pointers? Will a zone really help this? |
A 3-2 zone means three defenders up top and 2 back on the baseline.
What this will do is force the Suns to take long shots with a hand in their face rather than watching our PGs get beat easily off the dribble by Nash, have the defense collapse inside and then Nash kicks it out to a wide open 3 pt shooter.
My observation of the Suns is their 3 pt game is deadly and has to be controlled. It is much harder to make a 3 pt shot with a hand in your face than it is when you are spotting up in your favorite spot and getting a wide open look because no one can stay in front of Nash.
I am not saying run it all the time, but it would be very wise to mix in a significant portion of zone if the Lakers really want to win the series instead of just talking about winning.
What the zone does give up is offensive rebounds. That is a calculated risk I think the Lakers have to take, the Suns are not a great rebounding team anyway and hopefully LO and Kwame (being the 2 on the baseline in a 3-2 zone) could handle most of the boards even from a zone.
If the Lakers just do the typical, lazy, Phil Jackson style man defense with no surprises or adjustments, Phoenix is going to work them over big time.
It is time for Jackson to start earning his money. He needs to be much more forceful with the team, much more proactive in calling timeouts and have a much better defensive strategy than anything he has displayed in the last two years.
That is again, if they actually want to win. I am sensing the Lakers are happy just to be in the playoffs, they don't seem to be really planning on getting it done in watching their D over the last month. |
Partially agree, partially disagree Lanny.
Giving up offensive boards to the suns is a killer, and it is one area of rebounding they are very good at, particularly Amare and the Matrix. Also, the zone you're talking about only works if the other team can't collapse it through penetration, which nash excels at.
i do agree that against the P&R, a zone mixed in can help, maybe a 1-2-2, but it should be mixed in with the big showing, occasionally doubling on the pick, and some straight up switching. You won't necessarily stop them with each of those tactics, but you won't let them get a rhythm going.
My keys to victory:
Pound it down low every time down.
Outrebound them
Make Nash a shooter
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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TLT
Star Player
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Posts: 1025
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Let me just add my thanks once again for your hard work for the recaps for the season. We all do appreciate it. |
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LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47600
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2007 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| 24 wrote: | Partially agree, partially disagree Lanny.
Giving up offensive boards to the suns is a killer, and it is one area of rebounding they are very good at, particularly Amare and the Matrix. Also, the zone you're talking about only works if the other team can't collapse it through penetration, which nash excels at.
i do agree that against the P&R, a zone mixed in can help, maybe a 1-2-2, but it should be mixed in with the big showing, occasionally doubling on the pick, and some straight up switching. You won't necessarily stop them with each of those tactics, but you won't let them get a rhythm going.
My keys to victory:
Pound it down low every time down.
Outrebound them
Make Nash a shooter |
Good post 24, you make some great points. The rebounding issues I was thinking about for the Suns may concern them clearing their defensive glass more than their offensive rebounding prowess.
That said, I will risk offensive rebound chances in exchange for the original missed shot. Phoenix has tended to sizzle for very high shooting percentages vs LA, at least if we can get the initial miss, it gives us a chance to get a rebound and do our thing instead of having them dictate the game.
I am not saying zone the entire game, not at all. But if they just sit back in a passive, predictable man to man with the typical unnecessary switches and lazy rotations, you can forget beating Phoenix.
Regarding your keys to victory, I agree with all 3.
1. Pound it down low. This serves two purposes. First, it puts the ball in our front line where hopefully we can overpower their front line. Second, it slows down the game and that plays into our favor. Not to mention that inside out is ALWAYS the best way to run an offense, always.
2. Outrebound them. It seems obvious, but that is clearly a key. Figure that the Suns will likely have a big advantage on 3 pt baskets, that means you have to limit their possessions as much as possible. LO and Kwame are going to need to control the boards over Marion and Stoudemire. Not an easy task, but it can be done.
3. Make Nash a scorer. I am a huge fan of Nash's game, he is terrific. He can definitely score and score big as he has proven in past playoffs. But I agree with you, it is much better to have him shooting and scoring then to have him setting up everyone else for their pet shots in their favorite spots on the floor. It is almost like playing the old Jordan Bulls, the key wasn't shutting down Jordan (almost impossible under the rules and officiating, similar to Nash) it was shutting down the other key guys like Pippen, Horace Grant and Kerr/Paxson/Hodges
I think you have pretty much nailed the strategy the Lakers need to employ, of course it is easier said then done vs a great team like the Suns.
The Lakers can compete with Phoenix, but so far they have shown very little indication that they are willing to do what it takes. It is going to take signficantly more effort, strategy and heart than what the team has shown in the last few months. It should be interesting.
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